I disagree that that most great heavyweights could make the cruiser weight limit. I also feel most great heavyweights would add on pounds and compete in the HW division.
This is you being evasive again. This is not a rhetorical question, it requires a yes or no answer. You disagree that the vast majority of greatest heavyweight boxer's in history are NOT within the (on the night) weight of a modern hydrated cruiserweight? http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Henry_Cooper_(2nd_meeting)
You still haven't answered my question. How the hell do you know Tyson was 220lb in the ring when he was that at the weigh-in????
I did. I said Tyson (and everyone before 24 hour weighing) would be closer to what he weighed in at once he was in the ring than the cruiser is to what he weighed in at 24 hours previously once he is in the ring. You got that? I can say "I know" because everyone knows that. You too.
So if you're saying Cruiserweights hydrate back up to 220lb+ come fight night then it's not unreasonable to think Tyson was 230lb+ come fight night back in his time????
No I'm not being evasive. I have told you categorically I do not belive Tyson could compete as a CW today. Someone like Frazier could make CW just about, but I believe it more likely he would add pounds and compete at HW. If Charles was fighting today I believe he'd be a LHW. There is no evading there whatsoever. I have also said without any doubt that I believe you are completely wrong.
Well in theory, if Tyson could hydrate to 230 from 216-220 weigh in during the era BEFORE the 24 hour rule it would not only be Mike Tyson, it would be Jack Dempsey, Floyd Patterson, Ezzard Charles and every damn fighter too. Those guys must have been 10-16lb heavier on the night if you want to go down that road. But hey, I'm a reasonable guy, nobody ever said those guys were pounds heavier in the ring before the 24hour rule, but they very well may have. I imagine they ate a bit too but not enough to fight on a full stomach. You know what, I'm going to stick with what I said, the part you AGREE with, that the guys before the rule were way closer to the weigh in weight in the ring than the guys now.
Yes or no? Were the vast majority of historically great heavyweights within the current hydrated cruiserweight or not? That's the part you said you disagreed with.
I do not disagree that most Heavyweight champions throighout history have weighed below 220 pounds. What I disagree with is your opinion that that means they could then make the cruiser limit. I'm sure you'll reply to this asking me daft questions so I will repeat again. I do not believe Tyson could make the CW weigh in limit.
Someone like Frazier? Frazier was but 4lb shy of Cruiserweight before 24hour weigh ins!! We have @Wass1985 saying Heavyweights were already 10-14lb heavier in the ring BEFORE the 24hour rule!! Can you imagine 24 hours? With so much leeway to recover weight after a 24 hour weigh in it's just crazy to presume ANY fighter cannot make a weight 15lb bellow their best fighting weight 24 hours before a fight with all the hi-tech dietary advances.
Thank you. There we have it. The greatest heavyweights have historically been less than 220lb. The cruiserweight limit is 200lb. There is a 24 hour weigh in. Advances in rehydration has proven that boxer's can comfortably gain up to 20lb by the time they are in the ring. Therefore cruiserweight is heavyweight.
If Dempsey was around today he would likely be fighting at Light Heavyweight given how hot the division is, it would make sense business wise...
No, you said Tyson at 216 was 230 on the night back in the day. Using your rule, back in the day, Dempsey was really 200 plus in the ring. That's before modern training, dieting and 24 hour rehydration. Now, because you like to keep old timers away from modern greats you chose to decide actually, if he were around now Dempsey, unlike say Orlin Norris who shorter than Dempsey turned pro as a heavyweight then to cruiser then to heavyweight and back down again fluctuating between 189 and 240 to suit what fight he was taking, would be far too small and need to be a LHW... Yeah right!