Muhammad Ali win over Floyd Patterson.

What i am saying is that IF by some cirunstance (Ali came back ater, Foreman came thru earlier, whatever) Frazier didn't meet Ali prior to being hammered by Foreman and only had the two later matches he would be heavily doubted today. Heck, he still is by quite a few.

As for the second part, well maybe i am giving Floyd too much leeway? I certainly respect your views as haven't studied Floyd as heavily as others.

 

I think if we take Frazier's win against Ali away, and take Patterson's losses to Liston away, I'd probably still lean towards Frazier being a notch better.
That suggests a significant gulf in class when we put those results back in.

But then maybe I'm giving Joe too much leeway? I don't know.

 

No, i fully agree Frazier under those circumstances is still better.