The thing about super heavyweight with skills.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Dec 5, 2016.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Ali And Holmes were two master boxers with great speed and skills. In the case of Holmes, he could infight too.

    Yet as great as their jabs and solid right hands were, each was a little vulnerable to shorter swarming pressure fighters.

    The game has changed. Modern super heavyweights with skills, such as Bowe, Lewis, and Klitschko also have top jobs, however, the separate themselves from past greats as they are taller, have a longer reach in general, and much more power in their right hands.

    This makes it even harder on the shorter pressure fighters to land his best as he needs to navigate through a longer danger zone, take harder blows, and avoid being clinched by a much heavier man bearing his weight down on him.

    As Mike Tyson once said, everyone has a plan until they get hit. But if you're giving up a lot of inches and weight, you really don't have much of a plan B vs longer range artillery and clamp down clinching. The much smaller man is going to need power first. Then a tough chin and stamina in abundance to win. A good heart is also needed.
     
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  2. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Whats needed is speed and a solid boxing brain. In and out movement and beating the slower man to the punch. Holyfield did that constantly. It's done in the lower divisions constantly.

    Issue is most smaller heavyweights nowadays are fat ****s who don't know anything other than plodding forward.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Holyfield is a rare case, and he's 1-4 vs. Lewis and Bowe on fair score cards.

    Sure he won one time vs Bowe and it was a very close fight and one that had a time stoppage of 16+ minutes allowing Holyfield ( who was often gassed ) time to completely re-fuel. Bowe had the worst defense of a lot of super heavies with skills, and Manny Stewart was in his corner.

    Moving in and out in the lower divisions is most often done vs opponents their size.
     
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Agree with a lot of what Mendoza says. But it should be noted that Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, and both Klitscko's were beaten by men who were shorter than they were and in some cases older and less active. Bowe also skipped out on fighting a number of the best heavys of his era. Evander's first fight with Lewis should have gone to Lennox, true. But the rematch was very close and could have gone either way. Holy's third fight with Bowe needs to be taken with a grain of salt as Holy hadn't been terribly active going into that fight and was in poor form. He still decked Riddick and gave him hell before being stopped. As for shorter fighters of old? Mike Tyson beat an entire division of men who were significantly taller and sometimes even heavier than himself as did Joe Frazier.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Rahman, Brewster and McCall were not small men, and none of them won on points. Anyone can be knocked out. Rahman, McCall, and Brewster despite their flaws could punch!

    The taller men Tyson beat were not super heavyweights with skill. Certainly not in Lewis or Wlad's class. Tucker was the closest thing, and he hurt his hand early in the fight, after starting out well.

    The best big guys Tyson fought were Bruno, Douglas, and Lewis, and he struggled in all three matches.

    Frazier never beat one good big guy with skill who can punch....ever.
     
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    -Your opening post never said anything about needing to beat anyone on "points" to qualify.
    - Rahman and McCall were not small but they were noticeably smaller than Lewis and neither were viewed as world class prior to beating him.
    - Perhaps not. But Tyson was 5'11", and 218 lbs beating an entire class of men were anywhere from 6'2" to 6'5" and weighing between 220-235. How many occasions were Wlad, Bowe, Lewis, or Vitali ever placed in a proportionate situation themselves?
    - I think Smith was better than Bruno and Tucker better than Douglas. Not unreasonable to think given that the first two beat the latter two. And Tyson vs Lewis meant nothing to me by 2002.
     
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Holyfield knocked Buster Douglas out.
    Douglas was as big as Bowe and had skills.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Not on that night, he was fat and uninterested.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    If Frank Bruno's mentioned, I'll throw old George Foreman too.
    Another guy Holyfield beat.
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    So ?
    Holyfield was old and shop-worn in the Lewis fights and at least one of the Bowe fights, but that doesn't stop you counting those losses, does it?
     
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    McCall was 238 pounds with an 82" reach, and was heavier than Lewis for that fight!

    Rhaman was 236 pounds, with an 82" reach. Lewis was heavier.

    So both
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  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    And managed to beat one who was.
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Foreman was 42 years old, slow and never very skilled.

    Bruno came close to upsetting Tyson. He had Tyson rocked and hurt.

    If the examples you are using are from the 1980's and 1990's and 25-35 years have passed, it pretty much supports what I am saying.
     
  14. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    People really dont under stand how important power comes into play at HW ,Particularly if theres big gap in reach.
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Sensationalize much? Bruno didn't come within a f'n bulls roar of beating Tyson.