Why didnt Greb fight the true HW's, like Firpo, Fulton, Willard, Wills, Godfrey?

Greb, imo, would have had a stronger case to force Dempsey into fighting him if he had fought and beat any of these guys. Instead they go on a sparring session and that mostly he beat heavy LHW's. Yes he beat Brennan who was in the '90's weight-wise but he didnt fight any meaningful true big HW's like those mentioned. Fighting big guys like Firpo, Wills, Willard, Fulton and Godrey and they were around, would have been a different proposition then fighting heavy LHW's and a '90+ pd Bill Brennan. In their 5 fights Brennan had the most 2 wins out of his last 6 fights. For the record Brennan's last 6 fights record when facing Greb.
2-1-3
1-2-3
1-3-2
1-3-1
1-4-1
Not exactly steller, but maybe Greb and his people were smarter then the naysayers of today, Greb never fought them for the same reason he never fought Dempsey, need I say it?

 

Yes you are right but my premise was if he had fought and beaten any of these guys the "Too small" claim would be eliminated and would have stengthen his claim to a title shot. We all know Greb did not fight any of these guys, Dempsey was under no obligation to fight anybody if the money wasnt there or even if the money was there. An example would be the proposed Carpentier - Greb fight, where he was offered a huge sum to fight Greb and instead went another route. Personally I believe Carp would have had his ass very well kicked. It's ok it doesnt change things, that he was scared, ducked, avoided Greb means nothing now, he fought Dempsey instead for a bigger prize, it's all business.

 

Fair enough, let's see Carp fought Siki, instead of Greb. First Carp didnt figure to lose that fight fix or not. As you pointed out Siki was unknown, Carp fought the fight and lost whether it was fixed or not Carp lost. Carp fought twice after the Dempsey fight before both gimme's, Siki was supposed to be a gimme, seems Carp bought some insurance and instead got KTFO. Big upset, seems Carp was building his resume so that he could get a big payday. None of the three were supposed to pose any danger. It was a miscalculation on Carp's part, cos he thought he had an insured win. Something you still dont understand, an offer is just that an offer, you either accept or not. Like the Greb-Tunney 6, one side agreeing does not make a fight. Please tell us in both cases under what obligation was Carp to fight Greb. It's not as complicated as you make it seem. Dempsey vs Carp was talked about since 1919, months after he beat Willard. Carp - Dempsey fought July 1921. So from 1919 to 1921, Dempsey was on Carp's mind.

 

Without spins


The Washington herald., June 11, 1922, Sunday Edition, Page 13, Image 13

CARPENTIER TURNS DOWN GREB MATCH
Descamps Tells Rickard That Georges Has Signed for Bouts in Europe.
NEW YORK. June 10. Georges Carpentier will not box Harry Greb nor Jack Dempsey in this
country this year. It is practically certain. Francois Descamps. Carpentier's manager, this morning
sent a cable to Tex Rickard In which he declined, in behalf of Carpentier. “a handsome offer,"
made by Rickard, for a Carpentier Greb fight in Boyle's Thirty Acres this summer.
In turning down the offer, Descamps indicated that Carpentier would not be able to fill any engagement in America this year. Descamps says Georges is signed for a bout in Paris In September; and for another in London in October. This would practically eliminate any chance of the Frenchman appearing this year.
Rickard cabled Descamps an offer shortly after Greb defeated Tunney for the American lightheavyweight title. On last Monday, having received no reply to his previous message. Rickard
again cabled the French champion's manager, and this morning received the following cablegram
in reply: "Thanks for handsome offer, but it comes too late. Have already signed Georges for bout with Nills in Paris in September and with Beckett in London in October."







Great Falls tribune., June 29, 1922, Page 8, Image 8



Greb Clawed Gibbons Out of Chance to Try for Dempsey's Crown

St. Paul Man Has Retired to Bushes Since Defeat at Hands of Pittsburgher; Wants
Return Match.
New York, June 29.—Tom Gibbons of St. Paul was in line for matches with Georges Carpentier and Jack
Dempsey until Harry Greb closed his way to a decision over him. Since that affair Gibbons has gone back to the bushes and he has resumed his knockout career, flattening all comers but attracting no particular attention. Gibbons was a great disappointment in his bout with Greb, but his performance was not so poor that he deserves to be cast aside. Heavyweights are so scarce these days that the fans cannot afford to ignore him. Gibbons is not all that he should be, but he is a great deal better than the average.
It is not at all likely that if Dempsey were to tackle Greb, the champion would emerge with from the encounter with fresh laurels. Greb has an unpleasant way of making all his opponents look far worse than they really are. The tactics he uses are so peculiar that ordinary boxing methods cannot prevail against them.
Gene Tunney says that Greb is not a boxer at all but a contortionist, “why he can’t hit hard enough to knock over a lightweight”, declared Tunney. “Honestly I thought he was pulling at first, they told me he was a mankiller, but his hitting was so light I couldn’t believe he was trying”.

Greb Is a Puzzle
But although Tunney charges that Greb won the fight by using the top his head, he admits readily enough that the Pittsburgher is a puzzle. He thinks that Greb would beat Carpentier and make Dempsey look foolish.
Both Gibbons and Tunney want return matches with Greb. Unless Carpentier speedily shows a desire to come here and defend the world title against the Pittsburgher, the latter should give his two victims another chance.

There seems to be a great difference of opinion in New York and New
Jersey as to what constitutes a foul. Harry Greb was allowed to hold and hit as much as he pleased in his bout with Tunney. At one time Harry had Gene's head in chancery, but he was, allowed to get away with the trick that was barred when the Marquis of Queensberry rules were substituted for those of the London prize ring. Recently Charley White was refused a license as referee because he once disqualified a boxer who insisted upon rushing into clinches as fast as he was broken out of one.
Holds His Man

Just what is legal and what is illegal when the men are partly locked in a clinch is a matter that no two referees agree upon. Greb holds his opponent fast with one hand while clawing away with the other. If what he does is fair, then the rule that says a boxer must not hold and hit should be scratched out of the book. It does not mean anything. Boxing fans are not so much concerned about, holding and hitting as
they are about straight, clinching. If the principals are free to clinch as often as possible the fans would rather, see one arm free hitting than no hitting. What ring followers do want is a rule that would compel the men; to fight in the open. Constant clinching is unsightly and unscientific. It is one thing that makes bouts dull and uninteresting. With clinching barred any bout between evenly matched men would be full of interest.
Gibbons and Tunney Eliminated
Greb, for one thing, should immediately lay claim to the world title which Carpentier refuses to defend.
When Carpentier went home to France last summer after receiving a knockout at the hands of Jack Dempsey in Jersey City, he still was light-heavyweight champion of the world. The Frenchman gave his word to Tex Rickard that he would return this year to defend his title against the American
champion. At that time it was believed that Tom Gibbons would be Carpentier's antagonist, but Gibbons and Tunney both were eliminated by Greb. Rickard sent a cable to Carpentier soon after Greb whipped Tunney offering $150,000 or more for the Frenchman's reappearance in this country. But Carpentier has deliberately flunked His manager, Descamps, has notified Rickard that "previous engagements in the form of matches with European "sets up." make the acceptance of a fight with Greb out of the question.
Harry Understanding
Carpentier evidently received a tip from Dempsey, while the latter was arranging another match with his
Jersey City victim, to take no chances with Greb.

Carpentier, Dempsey and their managers believe that they can promote a return battle in London next year that will clean up a great load of money from the gullible British sporting public. Should the Frenchman, meanwhile, sustain a defeat in a scrap with Greb, the Carpentier – Dempsey, Kearns Deschamps plan would be knocked in the head.
For similar reasons Dempsey is dodging the challenge of Harry Wills, the negro who is the only heavyweight in the ring today capable to putting the world champion to a real test. In other words, Jack and Georges have a private understanding to avoid dangerous opponents until thev have pocketed a golden fortune in Europe.



The Bridgeport times and evening farmer., October 21, 1922, Page PAGE FIVE, Image 5

PARIS Francois Descamps explained when interviewed by the International News Service that his refusal of Jack Curley's offer of $75,000 for Georges Carpentier to meet Harry Greb in Ameirca was merely a postponenment of the match. He declared that Georges meant to recover his title in a return bout with
Battling Siki and then go to America.

 

Ah, a witty prof, yours must be extra wide that your gastric excretions come out sounding like fsst instead of a manly Prrrt!
Sorry I couldnt help myself. lol

 

You made a statement about assholes, I would think yours is extra large, and I still do cos of the manure spewing from both ends has nothing to do with your farts. Again pure desperation
My only obsession is the one sided BS you post