what if Foreman did not retire in 1977?

I think he would've had a ridiculous record, and would've gone down as top 3 of all time on many lists.

Holmes had a great style to beat Foreman. But ironically, his achilles heel plays right into Foremans hands. And that is his tendency to trade shots, even with punchers.

Holmes will be winning the match early on, but once he starts trading more and opening up, Foreman will catch him with something hard. And when Holmes gets up from that, Foreman won't let him go like Shavers.

 

Cooney would have been very dangerous at the 1980 point ,he was mentally on point and wason a tear . Foreman didnt have his 90's chin and was easily hittable. Cooney went 13 with Holmes who had great speed nd still kept up with him . I think Cooney at that time was the most dangerous match up he hit harder than Lyle or even Foreman then arguably with the left hook. Either way at 6'6 may have gave another fighter reliant on size difficulties .

If Foreman hadnt retired and can past these fighters he then probably retires around 84 or so but the old 90's Foreman never comes to be and see Foreman comeback to challenge Tyson and gets a 88 fight but it will be a less effective one , as i see 1991 Foreman who grew much smarter and stronger the superior version and 80's Tyson was a beast ,so !

I believe mid 80's Holmes also to be at his best so whenever that fight takes place thats the Holmes to beat ( No i dont consider the Spinks fights to legit .Holmes was badly injured the 1st time and he clearly won the 2nd ) so thats the time to beat him ,but we dont know without the break in after the Young fight if he gets spent anyway by prolonging his career?

 

Foreman didn’t have his 90s chin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can assure you that no fighter ever has had, nor ever will have, a better chin 20 years after their prime!

 

Foreman's success and future beyond 1977 would depend greatly on his frame of mind and weather or not he adjusted his style as he aged. The foreman who returned to boxing in 1987 was a changed man. He had 10 years to clear his head and seemed to have found a spiritual connection. In preparation for his comeback, Archie Moore worked with him to shore up his cross armed defense and coached George at pacing himself. He then worked his way back up in the ranks of taking on a steady procession of modest foes to shake the rust off. Had he continued past 1977 with no real change in style or mental fortitude he may very well have been beaten by some of the young up and comers of the early 80's.

 

True and i don't get how anyone cant see how he wasn't a better fighter in his come back,he fought huge punches and highly skilled guys unlike most part in his early career where he really only had Lyle to deal with ( who would have won had not the bell rung ) and Ali who was durable and ( foreman did have poor stamina which caused him after certain rounds to become uncoordinated and sloppy )could wind out Foreman. The young fight says everything because Foreman actually fought a smart fight in that fight despite the excuses and still lost. I would like to see Ron Lyle try and lay out Foreman of 90's in 4 rnds......he would get beat soundly .

Look at the list he fought in his comeback from Quawi ,Cooney, Holyfield ,Cooper, Morrison, Briggs to Moorer, he was never shook badly and never fell he just kept coming at you and not just because he was bigger and stronger but much better mentally smart and focused.

 

Foreman was in a bad way after losing to Young. He looked very suspect vs Lyle and suddenly had augmented confidence, chin, and stamina issues.

My best guess is he would have faded and lost at least once more, perhaps to the up and coming 1980's fighters.

Retiring for him was the right thing to do. Ali was NEVER going to give him a re-match anyway.

 

I agree that he was a better fighter in SOME ways. I Can't see the Foreman of 1990 doing the same job on Joe Frazier and Ken Norton that the 70's version of George did. Then again I'm not so sure I can see the younger George going 12 with Evander Holyfield. The comeback Rendition of Foreman was certainly wiser and more tactical in his approach with better defense, strait punches, and pacing himself whereas the earlier George was more dangerous and tenacious in the first few rounds.

 

Frazier would never hurt big foreman at any year. standing toe to toe with early 90's Foreman one would require ALOT of speed and movement/footwork...Frazier was no Holyfield. If Bonevena could knock down frazier twice ,i dont think Foreman has any problems and his power certainly didn't go any where. Norton and Frazier were highly unproven against hard punchers. he did slow by mid 90's but even that foreman was still operating at top contender status.

 

People don't get it because it is basically impossible.

 

Bonavena floored Frazier when Joe had only 11 pro fights. Oscar tried to do that again when Frazier was a 22 fight world champion and couldn't repeat that trick.. Standing toe to toe with a 90's Foreman was generally not a good idea as you stated but it wasn't impossible. Dwight Qawi, Alex Stewart, and Michael Moorer did it and while they all lost they certainly gave him more than his fair share of problems. This isn't to say that I think a 1973 Frazier would BEAT a 90's Forman. But I simply don't think that a 90's George could destroy a young Frazier in the same fashion.

 

True but he was floored ,nothing to do with taking a punch which Bonavena had. Frazier was a little more solid as his career went on but someone of sub 200 pounds and someone who could fight at 230 is a big differance. Quawi was still an 80's fight,i dont beleive foreman was in second gear yet. Stewart was really the only fight where he clearly was getting beat up at the time frame where going by not included Holyfield who didnt have stewarts power. Moorer was a southpaw and tricky,i don't beleive Moorer does that to the Foreman who fought Holyfield . Qawi was tough as nails, not saying Frazier was not but his chin was highly untested with true HW punchers,and Qawi was a faster then Joe, maybe not as hard hitting idk ?


I dont know foreman seemed to fight to the level of his opposition mostly really. I know foreman of 75 does not take 15/20 unanswered blows from Holyfield.

 

No fighter is going to have a better chin in his 40s, than he had in his 20s.

It is impossible.

 

Agreed. Defenses can improve over time but the ability to take a punch to the face generally doesn't