what if Foreman did not retire in 1977?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Combatesdeboxeo_, Dec 25, 2016.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    51,472
    25,978
    Jan 3, 2007

    Okay so the fact that Frazier was an 11 fight novice had nothing to do with him getting decked even though we saw him redeem himself against the same opponent later and while being more experienced.. Interesting.. By this logic someone could also make a case for more people taking Foreman the distance just because Gregorio Peralta did it when George was an umteen fight prospect. To address some of your other points, Foreman was a trim 235 lbs when he fought Qawi and already 8-9 fights into his comeback. Stewart, Moorer and Martin also took Foreman rounds and the first two even landed regularly against him despite not having a great chin and while standing right in front of him. I don't think Foreman's power nor two fisted attack was there anymore in the 90's. sure he still hit VERY hard but he wasn't the destroyer of the 70's which is why I think that a fast handed Joe Frazier might have lasted more rounds with him and even gotten off some of his better shots. In the end its possible that a 90's Foreman might have beaten a 1973 Frazier, but I doubt its happening in two rounds and without working up a sweat.
     
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    51,472
    25,978
    Jan 3, 2007
    Agreed. Defenses can improve over time but the ability to take a shot flush to the face generally doesn't
     
    Smokin Bert likes this.
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,355
    Jun 29, 2007
    Usually true, but there are exceptions.

    Briggs put on a lot of weight and his neck has become much stronger in his later years. KO'd early in his career a no name, he took flush shots in his later age by Ibragimov, and Klitschko rather well.

    Chins are misunderstood in boxing. While I think you can build up your resistance to take it by being hit and by strengthing your neck, if your mental resistance goes up or down, so does your " chin ".
     
    GALVATRON likes this.
  4. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    7,694
    4,245
    Oct 30, 2016
    Foreman added size,he started his career at pro of about 210...obviously a 6'3/6'4 guy whatever...is going to add mass at HW if hes a power puncher and thus taking better punches as well...there's a differance from Frazier who was 5'11 and fought at his best at 205,even though probably took a better punch at 215 but was not built to carry it. Foreman's jab was much better as well in the 90's a much harded crisp power drill that set up punches even if he was slightly slower,he was more effective at getting that right hand home. Had Holyfield had not a iron chin and in great shape he would have been k.od eventually.

    Before you bring TYSON into this...Tyson was naturally and physically athletic at 5'10/5'11 two totally different body types to frazier as referance of carrying 215/220 pounds.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,672
    27,387
    Feb 15, 2006
    Increasing the strength of the neck is pretty much the only area where there has been no advance since Foreman's day, or perhaps since Corbett’s day for that matter.

    There is something in what you say about mental resistance, but I don't think that this is likely to be a factor in a fighter who had already attained lineal tittle level.
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,355
    Jun 29, 2007
    Mental resistance and focus really matter. Example: Buster Douglas vs Tyson....and then vs Holyfield.

    A fighter can also learn to " roll with the punches " as he ages taking a little off the blows.
     
    reznick likes this.
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,672
    27,387
    Feb 15, 2006
    I think that is more a matter of desire and preparation, neither of which Foreman ever lacked.
    Then that would be an improvement in technique, not in durability.
     
    reznick likes this.
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    Old Foreman was not a better fighter than prime Foreman. Old Foreman was as slow as an old barn door. Prime Foreman had excellent speed (as per Ali himself). The thing with prime Foreman was he fought like a force of nature...a very quick starter looking to kill with every blow. Not many in boxing history gets through the first five rounds with that Foreman. Foreman post Ali or Old Foreman could be much more easily outboxed as his slowed down style/slowed down punches made him a much easier target.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,672
    27,387
    Feb 15, 2006
    What makes the "old Foreman’s was better" argument particularly silly is the difference in results!

    Young Foreman dominated every ranked fighter that he came up against, with the odd exception.

    Old Foreman lost to every ranked fighter that he faced, with the odd exception.

    Should any of this surprise anybody?
     
    reznick and Combatesdeboxeo_ like this.
  10. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    2,991
    1,141
    Nov 19, 2016
    foreman did not weight 210 pounds even in a single fight in his complete career
     
  11. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    2,991
    1,141
    Nov 19, 2016
    and who would you pick to give him the surprise?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  12. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    2,991
    1,141
    Nov 19, 2016
    gerry cooney beating foreman? and hitting harder than foreman? nah.. conney is not beating foreman, he loses every time by ko, foreman not only did hit harder but had much better chin. i would pick a cute stylist to trouble foreman, not a puncher
     
  13. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    2,991
    1,141
    Nov 19, 2016
    i agree.. it is stupid
     
    red cobra likes this.
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    53,327
    45,494
    Apr 27, 2005
    Exactly.
     
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,582
    Nov 24, 2005
    How many of these "ranked fighters" did young Foreman come up against ?
    He lost to Ali and Young, and certainly didn't dominate Lyle.
     
    GALVATRON likes this.