the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Fight 67: Willard vs Dempsey

    1: 2-10
    2: 8-10
    3: 8-10
    4: tko

    Every time I watch this fight there's always something new I find.

    Today it was that Willard fights the first 30 seconds as you'd expect any SHW to fight, he stalks forward on the front foot behind his jab, clinches every time Jack comes close.

    The first knockdown was Jack ducking under the jab to throw a body shot, as Willard went to initiate the clinch Jack then throws a lightning quick hook to the head and from that moment Willard never recovers.

    I think of that exchange and I then consider a fight against Wlad. Wlad was a lot quicker than Willard but not as quick as Jack. If Wlad throws a jab and Dempsey slips it to throw a body shot he would also go to initiate a clinch. Would he get there before the hook landed? If the hook up top does land will it be enough to drop Wlad? Would Wlad recover from a big knockdown punch?

    Taking that exchange in isolation, the one that led to the first knockdown, I honestly don't know what Wlad could do any different to Willard.

    I've always been a bit unsure about matching Dempsey against SHW opponents due to his own size, he's clearly a cruiserweight fighter who could also make LHW. But taking that isolated exchange I don't see how Wlad can escape from the situation. Lewis would throw an uppercut, Vitali would survive the punch, Bowe would exchange hooks with him but Wlad, I see it going the exact same way.

    If I was a @reznick level of poster I would do the streamable thing he does and isolate the exchange leading to the first knockdown and ask what Wlad does differently.

    This man is one of the best p4p fighters ever, I've absolutely zero doubt of that.

    On a downside I read the report the following day about his drawing of the colour line. Specifically says he's going to ignore the challenge of Wills, and he did.
     
  2. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    CASSIUS CLAY 97 | 94 DOUG JONES
     
  3. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    CASSIUS CLAY VS SONNY LISTON I: 58 - 56 CLAY at the time of stoppage.
     
  4. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    MUHAMMAD ALI VS FLOYD PATTERSON I: 119 - 99 ALI at the time of stoppage.
     
  5. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    Will there ever be a another heavyweight scene in the United States like there was in the 50's thru 70's and again (sort of) in the 90's? What great era's for American heavyweight boxing :borra2:
     
  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rorschach, I scored this awhile back. On the rounds basis employed at the time.
    I know it's a controversial fight, but here is the way I saw it. Cassius Clay v Doug Jones

    Round 1: Jones
    Round 2: Clay
    Round 3: Clay
    Round 4: Jones
    Round 5: Jones
    Round 6: Even
    Round 7: Clay
    Round 8: Jones
    Round 9: Clay
    Round 10: Clay

    5-4-1 Clay
     
  7. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    Here's mine,

    Round 1.) 10-9 Jones
    Round 2.) 10-9 Clay
    Round 3.) 10-9 Clay
    Round 4.) 10-9 Clay
    Round 5.) 10-9 Jones
    Round 6.) 10-9 Jones
    Round 7.) 10-9 Clay
    Round 8.) 10-10 Even
    Round 9.) 10-9 Clay
    Round 10.) 10-9 Clay
     
  8. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    MUHAMMAD ALI VS GEORGE CHUVALO I: 147 - 138 ALI
     
  9. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    MUHAMMAD ALI 108 | 98 KARL MILDENBERGER ALI at time of stoppage.

    This is one of the most entertaining landslide on the scorecards fights you'll ever see. Mildenberger kept coming, and didn't make this easy on Ali. Defintely one of his toughest fights to this point, much tougher than Patterson, probably right there with if not a tougher fight than Ali vs Chuvalo I.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  10. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    MUHAMMAD ALI 148 | 137 ERNIE TERRELL
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Kuniaki Shibata D15 Ernesto Marcel

    Marcel is really light on his feet, a beautiful boxer to watch. Extremely even first round. Marcel lands a prodding right, Shibata does ok to the body in return and in the final minute gets his jab working. I think the Japanese probably sneaked it on that jab. Marcel is controlling the action though. He's gone from circling to backing his man up as he feels it.

    Wonderful second round, although there's quite a lot of missing. THat's unfortunate because it makes it hard to score. I think i'll give it to the Marcel lead right in the final minute. He lands a few. The third is quieter until the final minute when Marcel really gets his man back on his heels. Shibata does some real nice left-handed work in the fourth, left hook to the body, jabs. Cuffing left hook upstairs, follows it in digging to the body crowd loves it. Marcel is cool though.

    Fun fight. Long spells when nothing happens though, Marcel moving away clockwise, then counter-, Shibata is not too persistent with his pressure, he waits for Marcel to get the clock wound. Fifth round very close. I gave it to Shibata. Marcel gets that long jab going for the sixth. Shibata might find it hard to continue to wait if he gets that punch going. Not having the best luck landing it, but he tosses a right in and then feints and left hooks. It's changed the fight I think, but I have them even after six; this is confused a bit by the fact that Marcel might have had a point taken away from him in this round for **** knows what. But I'm not sure.

    Seven feels kind of key and Marcel opens it well with a lead right/left hook to the body. Cheeky. He's very square over that front foot Marcel, but he moves well enough to compensate I think. Shibata does put his marker down with forty seconds remaining with a triple left hook donwstairs, but Marcel has outlanded him pretty clearly by that point. In the eighth he's even getting away with lead rights to the body. Shibata isn't going away yet, but he's not winning these rounds. He very nearly wins the ninth by making it desperate, but Marcel spends most of the last forty seconds of the round beating him up.

    Shibata is still able to force exchanges but he's losing them. Meanwhile, Marcel continues to tag him with that right hand. I wish he would jab more though. For Shibata, it's pretty much game over I fear. He needs all remaining rounds on my card.

    All Shibata needs: Marcel starts landing lead left hooks at the opening of the eleventh. He has some success with his own left hook to the body but now needs a KO on my card. Marcel actually steps it up in the twelfth, he looks really, really dangerous, moving round his man, establishing the range, moving in for a foray when he fees like it, hitting often, and often quite hard, with both hands. Shibata is always ready with something when he gets too close too long but he's something like a punching bag this round. Tremendous heart though. And he may have nicked the fourteenth with right hands to the body, not to mention strength of will. Fifteenth, too, to make it look a little respectable.

    Shibata:1,4,5,14,15
    Marcel:2,3,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,

    Yeah, straight-up robbery really.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Ive always felt that the only man to beat Marcel was Duran
     
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Kuniaki Shibata RTD 12 Vicente Saldivar

    Aggressive start from Shibata, then Saldivar makes the distance and starts working the southpaw jab. Other right handed work puts Shibata back in his box and takes the round. In the second, Shibata's aggression is more measured, he's waiting. This should play into Saldivar's hands as he's the more skilled fighter; a counter-right uppercut at the end fo the first minute underlines this. Saldivar favours the body throughout the round, but one of Shibata's unexpected rights catches him unexpectedly. He goes back to the jab. SO far, so good.

    In the third, Shibata starts finding a home for his straight right hands and things start geteting messier. Saldivar is spending more time in or near the pocket fighting. It's not that Shibata is out-and-out better in there, but things are more chaotic and the quality fighter has less control. Plus, it's not like Shibata is a dummy; he's skilled himself, wonderfully well balanced which gives him unexpected punches. Saldivar is bac in control of himself in the fourth though, moving well, landing a couple of three-punch combos, both of which end with a right-hand to the body. He forced that final punch a bit but it's a nice combination.

    This is a fascinating fight. Shibata is willing to trust himself enough to place himself in range and then try and make Saldivar miss and then he counters with punches. He slips and steps back well and it affords him opportunities. Saldivar looks a little nervous of his own offence. Still, he lands a real nice one-two, he lands jabs. Probably just about shades the fifth to take a handy lead. Not much happened early in the sixth. Probably Shibata takes the round with straight rights landed as single shots. He's doing a fine job of making Saldivar miss, too.

    Saldivar opens the seventh looking for straight punches to the body and it works ok for him. Shibata, as you'd expect, looks to close a bit, move when he's out. It's a Saldivar round up until the last minute when Shibata cuffs him with a good left hook then lands a straight right to the torso. The Mexican re-establishes his jab to see out the round though. Nice body work approaching the bell, too.

    If I knew this was going to the cards I'd describe the eighth as huge in the light of my own card. 7-2 is a very big lead; 6-3 is not in a fifteen round fight. I'd say Shibata just about squeaks it. It's a fascinating round for him to win, too. He is not overly aggressive, he is not overly busy, he just manages to beat Saldivar to the punch on a couple of occasions to catch the eye. When they squabble inside, nothing that significant is landed.

    After dropping the tenth, my scorecard is looking less rosey for Saldivar but you'd have to say if he could win two of the remaining five rounds clearly he'd be very hard to catch on any card (in fact ringside judges had him ahead at the end). Shibata has his right dialled back in at the opening of the eleventh though; he also appears to be getting the edge inside, and when the break he lands a winging left hook. Saldivar stands and trades, but Shibata just keeps coming; Saldivar is cut above the eye in this round and for the first time since the first finds himself with his back to the ropes. He's being out-thugged now.

    Chants of "Mexi-co, Mex-ico" go up at the beginning of the 12th. They can't fight it for him though. Shibata lands hard right hands throughout and although Saldivar keeps fighting back, keeps going, he looks a little wrought with that blood and those years on him. Perhaps it's understandable that he elected to give it up at the end of this round.

    SHIBATA:3,6,9,10,11,12
    SALDIVAR:1,2,4,5,7,8,,
     
  14. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thought this was scored a draw...
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes, it was indeed.