Rocky Marciano vs Chris Byrd

I don't see what people see in Chris Byrd to suggest he'd have a hope in hell against Marciano.

 

Elementary assumptions and excuses.

Having a close fight isn't reaching your limits. Ali's limits weren't tested with Cooper and Jones. They were tested with his battles with Frazier, Foreman, Norton. If Marciano had extended his career until he started losing some matches, we would have a better idea.

But to keep phrasing the argument by postulating that "old Walcott Charles and Moore" was the extent to his capabilities isn't accurate. He didn't lose to any of those guys.

 

That's a supremely unconvincing post but not at all elementary. In fact, that is high level, sophisticated myopia.

 

Byrd in his absolute prime wasn't as good as those "old men" anyway.
Points wins over a decrepit shot worn-out Holyfield and the plodding Tua are his career highlights by far ... oh, and that time Vitali torn his shoulder and quit.
Archie Moore would have sparked Byrd out, nevermind what Marciano would do to him.

What's next ? Fres Oquendo to win a 12-round decision against Rocky ? Eddie Chambers to school the Brockton Blockbuster too ?

Chris Byrd was the epitome of a second-rate paper alphabet titlist. His "reign" was a joke by standards of true heavyweight championship.

Don't get me wrong, he was a smart and cagey fighter, and was a pretty game fighter despite his defensive style. But he seems to get a lot of credit when in his prime he was barely beating fringe contenders.

 

Of course its possible some of those fringe contenders were better than the likes of Mathews ,Layne, and C*ckell.Tua was the number one contender ,and I venture he hit as hard if not harder than Rocky.The point is he took Tua's punches,[ and some of those to the body were big bombs,] and found a way to win.In fairness, Tua was more straight up that Rocky and easier to tag with a jab but he was a real puncher and any idea that Rocky just has to connect solidly to finish things would be way off the mark.Then we have to ponder how he would cope with the south paw stance? Did he ever meet one? Fres Oquendo? I'd take him to beat Lastarza and Roland did well against Rocky didn't he?

 

It would not be accurate to describe Marciano in that way.It would however, be accurate to say they were the extent of the capabilities he was allowed to show.

 

Yes true, but that doesn't get at my point.

 

What is the nearest stylistic facsimile to Marciano that Byrd faced and beat ? I say a 5'10" Tua, a relentless come forward banger, who hit as hard as Marciano, had a better chin and,in shape, was 50lbs heavier.That being the case I think my comparison is valid.
Mac Foster had as much resemblance to Joe Louis as to Joe Di Maggio.

 

Possibly, marginally, maybe. But Marciano smashed those lot up badly, whereas Byrd's "wins" were often the type where we're wondering what way the judges will see it.

I liked Tua as a person and as a fighter, so I don't like to say this, but he kind off lacked something, I wouldn't say "heart", but he seemed to switch off and plod a bit when faced with a fighter who was outboxing him. He lacked the relentless intensity against that style of fighter. His power bailed him out a few times.
In contrast Marciano was always wearing his opponents down, imposing himself, even when he was losing rounds the opponents were burning themselves out trying to keep him off or discourage him.

And i agree, Marciano is unlikely to KO Byrd with one shot. He'd beat him up, like he usually did.

I don't believe southpaw would bother Marciano. He threw punches from such diverse and unorthodox angles I can't see it being much of an issue.
He fought everyone the same way, which would obvious be a fatal flaw if up against a Foreman or Liston, but not against Byrd methinks.

LaStarza only did well against a earlier version of Marciano.
The rematch he took a hiding.

 

Lastarza won 5 of the 11 rds.

 

Let me put it this way.

Does any heavyweight have a better record against cuties than Marciano?

He has Walcott X2, Charles X2, and Moore.

Three of the best of all time right there.

Even LaStarza would have been seen as a good example, in an era that was lacking in this type of fighter.

It is hard to find a fighter better qualified to take on Byrd!

 

Do you not admit that he was extremely close to losing to both? Or was it his cagey plan to take a beating against Walcott (who had Rocky sagging in the 11th) and to get his nose ripped in two by Ezzard in order to gain the upper hand?

How far does this Rocky Mania go? I am curious.

 

37 years old Walcott was in front after 12 rds. Lastarza split a close dec first time around and won 5 of the11 rds of the 2nd fight.175lbs Lowry went the distance twice.

 

I do think they were close. But he hadn't lost. So we don't really know where his "sweet spot" is in terms of real adversity to the extent that he starts losing matches. It wasn't at Charles, Walcott, and Moore.

Even if he had lost one of the 6 fights between Charles, Walcott, Moore and Louis, it still wouldn't signal how far he could go. 5-1 against that group means you're beyond their level. Let alone 6-0.

While you're over there curious, I'm over here befuddled at Rocky being singled out for flimsy critiques!

 

Yes but he was still beaten.

Even if LaStarza had won the first fight, I could argue that it was at a point in Marciano's career, where this was not exceptionally damaging.

Not particularly relevant either in terms of Lowry's style, or when the fights took place!

Marciano probably fought in an era that was more dominated by slick boxers, than any other in heavyweight history.

He kept fighting the #1 contender, and beating them, over and over again.

He has nothing to prove in terms of his ability to deal with this type of fighter!