Did Leonards eye rob him of his absolute zenith?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Jan 26, 2017.


  1. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

    36,373
    28,917
    Feb 25, 2015
    Did Ray Leonard having to retire at 25 years old possibly have some potential improvements left on the table?

    Had his eye not failed him could have become a little better? This is not to say that he was a green fighter during his fights with Benitez, Duran and Hearns because he wasn't. But I can't help, but think that with a few more years of seasoning he could become even better.

    His peers Duran and Hagler reached their apex abilities in their late 20s. By that time that had amassed a very large amount of experience against high level competiton, but were still young enough to have seen no erosion of their physical attributes at all.

    Makes we wonder what a hypothetical 28 year old Leonard who never had to retire would look like. And if that same Leonard would have fought Montreal Duran would have posed a bigger threat? Would he have been a little experienced and rugged?

    They say we never saw Ali's best years due to exile. And I think he was the same age as Leonard when he first had to walk away.
     
  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,752
    44,304
    Apr 27, 2005
    IMO Leonard was hitting his absolute peak when he stopped fighting. He learned a lot from the Duran fight and rematch and probably learnt a fair bit more against Hearns.

    My line of thought is that he was say 2 fights (Stafford then Pryor) off leaving the welters for good. Moving up to fight bigger men he would have lost some of his natural advantages tho obviously he still would have been great.

    Look at the boxing clinic he put on against Hagler with all the intangibles against him - moving way up in weight, not having fought so long, etc. This was a guy that already knew how to fight. Really fight.
     
    Eel87 and dpw417 like this.
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,752
    44,304
    Apr 27, 2005
    Oh and i'd back the SRL that retired to beat the Duran that dfeated him in a barn burner.
     
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,107
    13,051
    Jan 4, 2008
    If he could have kept himself motivated, I think he'd have continued to improve for another 3-4 years. There's always more to learn for those who really want to learn and he shouldn't started do decline physically before his 30's if he took care of himself correctly. But I don't think he had that kind of motivation after Hearns. If he had, he would have come back as soon as possible after the surgery. Instead he waited for quite some time to make a half assed comeback and then went back into retirement.

    If he didn't suffer a detached retina but had a hard time motivating himself after the pinnacle of the Hearns win, he wouldn't improve but rather come unstuck at some point.
     
    NoNeck likes this.
  5. Skins

    Skins Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,307
    2,730
    Oct 20, 2011
    Even with the injury and the missed time, I always thought that Leonard was the best fighter I had seen in my lifetime of watching boxing, which would be from the 70's thru today:ARMS1:
     
  6. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,827
    6,589
    Dec 10, 2014
    I think he had reached his peak or was close to it.

    I think having to retire actually helped his legacy because I think Hagler would have beaten him if they had fought in 1982.
     
  7. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    25,108
    8,543
    Jul 17, 2009
    I can't see Leonard getting much better than he already was in 1981 when he was absolutely awesome. Obviously he'd have maintained this prime over a longer period.
     
  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,509
    17,552
    Apr 3, 2012
    I think he was getting disinterested and would've fallen off like other 80s fighters who were into cocaine and drinking. As was previously stated, he didn't need that kind of layoff from the eye injury. He could've been back in the ring or at minimum back in full contact training after a year.
     
  9. steve21

    steve21 Well-Known Member

    1,901
    3,343
    Jan 19, 2015
    He's admitted to a cocaine addiction in the mid-80s ... if he hadn't had the layoff, yeah, it's a pretty safe bet substance abuse would have caught him eventually anyways and derailed his career. Stuff like that doesn't need a particular circumstance to develop.
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,752
    44,304
    Apr 27, 2005
    Leonard may have turned to cocaine due to not fighting too. too much time on his hands, not occupied enough (training), bored, lacking a challenge etc. Just throwing it out there.
     
    groot likes this.
  11. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,461
    348
    Jul 13, 2007
    I would too...
     
  12. steve21

    steve21 Well-Known Member

    1,901
    3,343
    Jan 19, 2015
    That makes a lot of sense as well ... something had to fill that void in his life that boxing occupied, and playing 18 holes of golf wasn't going to cut it for a 25-year old fighter at his near-peak physically.
     
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,509
    17,552
    Apr 3, 2012
    Was Leonard not already started en route to drugs and alcohol around the time he quit?
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,752
    44,304
    Apr 27, 2005

    Not sure. I saw someone mention mid 80's and he was gone at the start of 82. Always the chance if he already was it was light and got heavier post first retirment. Spuculation but not impossible. No doubt it would be out there somewhere.
     
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,509
    17,552
    Apr 3, 2012
    I'm skeptical about Leonard facts because he was keeping such a squeaky clean image. I think it's entirely possible that he was already doing lines and drinking too much in the early 80s. The fall off isn't usually overnight. Maybe he told in his last book. I didn't read it.

    The Howard fight might be a decent barometer for how he would've performed. He'd probably have some nights better than that and maybe an off night or two that would be worse.