Does size count even just a little bit?

He just doesn't want to credit any SHW fighters because doing so is admitting that some previous champs could not exist in the HW division as they were.

 

I think Fury's a cut above Haye.

 

Maybe today he is, prime for prime not on the same level imo.

 

Haye's "prime" was completely unimpressive.
His best win was probably the Chisora KO. A novice Fury had already a win over Chisora at that point.
Haye was one of the weakest alphabet HW title-holders ever, imo.

 

I can't help but disagree with the first sentence. I can't help but agree with second sentence. I would like further clarification on the third sentence.

 

I actually forecast Furry beating Wlad by the way. Just saying.

 

With Haye people think of the potential there and not what he actually achieved in the ring at HW.

 

Obviously more people equals more big people. But it also means more of everything else too. The percentage within that volume have levelled off. I am sure in most sports growth can be shown to be a microcosm of the wider community but heavyweight boxing at championship level does not show this.

I have copied and pasted some of lufcrazy posts from a recent thread to see research specific to heavyweight boxing.


"There's been a lot of discussion lately about the size of HW fighters and how it has developed. As a maths teacher I'm quite a stats geek so I've done some minor research.

I took the top ten of the TBRB for this year (last weight of every fighter in 2016) and then the top ten of the ring rankings for every previous decade (last weight of every fighter in the previous year).

Just to compare and contrast some of the results.

There is no context here whatsoever, just pure number work.

2017 = 244.1
2007 = 247.2
1997 = 230.8
1987 = 213.9
1977 = 210.7
1967 = 198.2
1957 = 192.1
1947 = 200.3
1937 = 194.2
1927 = 199.3

Make of that what you will gents.
Click to expand...
↑
Thanks! Very interesting. Not very much happened for 60 years and the change that did occur seems to be easy to attribute to better health care and living conditions, which also can be seen in an increase in average height. But from 1987 onwards you see a marked difference. What happened from the mid 80's were: 1. The 15-round limit was changed to 12 rounds. 2. Training methods that including intervals and weight training had a breakthrough with the successes of Michael Spinks and Holyfield. 3. Fighters started testing positive for steroids.
Click to expand...
If you look at the jumps

1927-1937=-5.1
1937-1947=+6.1
1947-1957=-8.2
1957-1967=+6.1
1967-1977=+12.5
1977-1987=+3.2
1987-1997=+16.9
1997-2007=+16.4
2007-2017=-3.1

 

He wants to blame everything on PEDS so he can compare the tall fighters of today with the tall fighters of yesteryear and deduce Marciano is better than everyone who came after him.

 

He reminds me so much of the way Mag used to post about Duran.

 

He's got points though, some of these HW's would certainly be lighter if they were natural and in condition but Marciano would still be giving away a massive amount of weight nevertheless.

 

It's so hard to say.

I'd imagine for a 15 round fight they'd be more 220-230 than 240-250 but I don't really have anything to base that on.

I suppose it's he opposite of how I normally envision fights which makes it just as valid as a today fight or a time machine fight.

Put a 220 Lewis in the 50's and he probably kills people in the ring.

 

Using a fighter of Marciano demensions is being a bit unfair. Yes size in the case of Marciano who was physically a tough man, but skill wise, other then a great ability to cut off the ring, take punches and delivery extraordinary power punches was very short, with, short arms, weighted around 190 lbs. Sure any reasonable fight fan should see he would be tailor made for most of the super heavys in todays world. But would an Ali? Would a Holmes? Would a G.Foreman?. Would even a Prime Frazier?. I can only go by what I've seen, and I saw Holyfield take it too 2 men who whould be considered super heavys in R.Bowe and L.Lewis. And Holyfield was past his prime with Bowe, and getting deep in the valley by the time he got too aLewis, and yet he wasn't dominated in his 3 fights with Bowe, and 2 with Lewis. What if Holyfield was in his prime? What if Ali, or Holmes,Foreman, were in their primes fighting the D.Wilders of the world today? The same D.Wilder who was totally gased by the 5th rd against very average competition. The same D.Wilder that completely loses techniques because unlike the fighters of yesteryear who when gassed still had solid fundementals because they trained to the point it was instinctive to throw punches correctly. Wilder and most fighters today start slapping with their punches, esp in the later rds. They start tripping over their own feet. Sure size would be an issue against a 1 demensional fighter like a Marciano, a Dempsey, maybe even a J.Louis. But against the Ali's The Holmes,The Foremans,Listons,Tysons, and even a prime Frazier or Holyfield I don't think it would be. Against that type of competition you better know how to really fight. And most of the heavys of the last twenty yrs don't.