If Holmes retired after Cooney

Without the 48-0, 20 title defense record he'd no doubt drop a notch. But he'd also have an aura of less vulnerability to his legacy and not quite as much padding which is he is so widely criticized for. Retiring in Mid 1982 would have left him with a record of 40-0-0-30 and 13 title fights with wins over Norton, Cooney, Shavers, Berbick, Weaver and Leon. He'd still be top 10 in my book. But top 5 is questionable.

 

He'd be rated about the same as he is now, a little less on some people's lists.

Actually, a retirement there in mid-1982, when Mike Weaver was still WBA champion (since 1980) could actually look a lot better compared with some of the stuff we've been discussing lately regarding Holmes's reign running paralell to a rival WBA (and from 1984 WBC) lineage.

 

You have some very good points. And in truth Holmes' resume might have actually turned out better from certain angles. You wouldn't have the losses to Spinks or the controversial decisions against Williams and Witherspoon or the accusations of ducking future quality contenders. a 40-0 record with 13 defenses against some average to very good opponents might not be so bad.

 

Think for a long time after his retirement there would be a feeling of unfinished business, a sense of he could have done much more. There would be calls for him to come back and fight tyson. In time he would be seen as a good for his era but not a great. Would be a lot of what if s and if only s wrote about him to this day

 

I might be in this boat. He'd probablty slip up one place maybe two if i put him at 5 instead of four presently.

 

Disagree with this. He'd done a helluva lot by then even in a weak era. He would still be considered a great for certain.

 

Would he be looked at now the same as rocky do you think or would marciano be seen as greater?

 

Who would you say is looked at as greater right now?

 

I think Holmes had better wins than Tyson did, but I wouldn't count Cooney among those.

 

I agree. Cooney was a legitimate contender when he faced Holmes. I think people consciously or subconsciously judge him harshly for his defeats to Foreman and Spinks when he was more or less a retired fighter. In fact some part of me suspects that if he had never taken those fights he might well be given better odds in some fantasy matches. Gerry was 25-0 and had utterly destroyed nearly all of his previous opponents in devastating fashion. While Young, Lyle and Norton were past their best they still had relevance in the division.