Feelings on Marciano vs Louis??

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3:08...a series of right hands from Louis drops Omelio.

I think between this, Brion 2, and the Savold fight, we have to conclude he still used his right hand and had power in it.

 

Freddie Beshore was a defensive minded veteran? The fight reports say he crowded Louis,guess they were wrong eh Dan?
After the first Agramonte fight ,the headline in the next mornings Detroit News said.
"Joe Doesn't Know The Truth,He's That Bad" Here is the leading sentence
"Old Joe Louis in winning his decision was little more than a clinical study for biologists who might be concerned over what happens to muscles and reflexes of an aging athlete".Paul Chandler. "His punch was gone his footwork was clumsy,he couldn't defend against a right hand,he telegraphed everything he threw except light flicks and was bedazed when he had a knockout opportunity".
What would Chandler know, he was only a fair-weather reporter.
Top contender Savold.
"Before the second Agramonte fight Joe had signed to meet Lee Savold in June at the Polo Grounds,the 36 year old former bartender was over the hill"Richard Bak," Joe Louis The Great Black Hope". What does he know?

 

Freddie Beshore was a defensive minded veteran? The fight reports say he crowded Louis,guess they were wrong eh Dan?
After the first Agramonte fight ,the headline in the next mornings Detroit News said.
"Joe Doesn't Know The Truth,He's That Bad" Here is the leading sentence
"Old Joe Louis in winning his decision was little more than a clinical study for biologists who might be concerned over what happens to muscles and reflexes of an aging athlete".Paul Chandler. "His punch was gone his footwork was clumsy,he copuldn't defend againsta right hand,he telegraphed everything he threw except light flicks and was bedazed when he had a knockout opportunity".
What would Chandler know he was only a fair-weather reporter.
Top contender Savold.
"Before the second Agramonte fight Joe had signed to meet Lee Savold in June at the Polo Grounds,the 36 year old former bartender was over the hill"Richard Bak," Joe Louis The Great Black Hope". What does he know?

Just wondering how difficult it was to drop Agramonte Dan?

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x4
Moderate puncher Johnny Willams below

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Teddy Randolph in 1942.No picture
Plus He was ko'd 7 times .
Three right hands plus a left hook to floor him.Hmmm

 

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Why would I guess they were wrong? There's footage of Beshore crowding Louis and getting his face smashed in by left and right uppercuts until the doctor stops the fight in the 4th round. The announcer notes Louis' sharp punching and two handed attack. But I guess he's wrong eh...mcvey?

I can't dispute Chandler's observations, maybe Joe did look bad that night. Their second fight is filmed and on youtube, and Joe Louis while not looking prime, looks very good, and drops Agramonte with a right hand and puts him on his bicycle the rest of the fight. But would what the footage know, it only filmed what happened?

I know Richard Bak, last time I quoted him you weren't interested in what he had to say, now you are preaching him to me. Let's call you Fair Weather, McVey.

 

No, I have access to this website called boxrec and I would highly recommend it to you. I think you should use it sometimes, there's a lot I think you can learn. Let me know if you need a link or help finding it.

 

I bought the Bak book this week and deliberately used his quote because you said it was a well researched book.If it is as you state, then his comment on the 36 years old Savold being over the hill would necessarily be valid and correct too would it not?
The reason I disputed Bak's contention that Louis's Mother's name was spelt Lillie was because Louis himself said it was spelt Lilly.
Taking the word of a son on how his mothers name was spelt over that of a writer seemed eminently reasonable to me ,but of course you would know best Dan!
Q . Was Beshore a defensive minded veteran
A. Yes or No?

ps Thanks for responding Dan, I know how busy you are correcting us mere mortals.
I feel kind of honoured that you've taken the time out to reply really.

 

Again I am in your debt Dan .You The Man!

 

You are putting too much effort into this, I have invaded your real life, I apologize, not my intention.

And yes, Louis' family background is a matter of research.

Bak describing a fighter as "over the hill" is an opinion, nor does it contradict what I wrote or prove anything.

Why ask such an utterly pointless and stupid question...not once but twice? As shown on camera, Beshore tried to crowd and got his face smashed by uppercuts until the doctor stopped the fight in 4th round.

 

Quote me correctly, please.

Only two? It seems like are at odds with a lot more than two neither are sidekicks of mine.

Did I say you hate Joe Louis? You might want to check on that one

 

Which then speaks to the paucity of the division during this time. There can be no other conclusion.

 

Well it certainly wasn't a high point of heavyweight history, not by any stretch.

 

Its no effort Dan I assure you,and my real life is entirely separate from this playground of wannabee Nat Fleisher's, certain posters excepted.
I'm typing this with head phones on listening to Bechet's Rose de Picardie whilst my partner catches up with tonight's soaps on TV,this is welcome comedy relief!
You stated that Louis' opponents till then had been defensive minded veterans did you not? I just asked how Beshore ,a face first swarmer fitted into that category ?

I reversed the tables to use Bak against you.It's called being hoist with one's own petard.


Q. Would you imagine that:
1.Richard Bak ?
2.Joe Louis ?
Would/should have the final word on how Louis' Mother's name was spelt?
A. Either 1.or 2, is required here.
1.
2.

Q. Would you say Lee Savold at 36 years old ,due to have one more fight after Louis , lose it by ko and then retire was:

3.Prime?
4. Over the hill?
A.Either 3 or 4 is required here.
3.
4.

Go on Dan ,you know you can do it. You The Man!

 

Why are you repeating your grammatical error? I've already pointed out it makes no sense. Do you really need it underlining? Okay just for you sweetheart.

 

This is what Rice said.
"Ex-Champ Louis Must Locate Punch He Lost a Few Years Ago... He has lost his old punch.... Louis must locate the punch he lost three or four years ago.... It has been a dull story ever since Joe Louis lost his punch, his hand speed and his reflex actions in the ring." - Grantland Rice

 

No, I actually did not. You isolated three words, ignored all context they were used, and added "till then" Till what? What the hell are you talking about? If you want my attention you are going to have to actually address the things I said, not your own wacky left field interpretation of isolated words.

I have no idea why you would ask such a stupid rhetorical question when nobody was arguing Beshore was a defensive minded veteran. I thought we were discussing the men Louis were criticized for failing to stop, not a guy he demolished in 4 rounds.

One guy is going by recollection, the other public record. Louis' spelling contradicts every source I've seen, and most importantly, who gives a **** how her name was spelled anyway? I'm not interested in such a petty argument, I gave my opinion.

You can call him Captain Cheesesteak for all I care. My argument was that he was sturdy, having only been stopped 5 times in 36 losses at that point. In the previous decade starting with the June 41 King Kong fight, he was stopped just twice in 57 fights. That is insane for a hard nosed brawler type that was taking on all comers. Louis setting him up for a KO with a right cross is evidence of power in my book. Savold lost his next fight to Marciano in less devastating fashion, and prior to Louis he pulled off the biggest win of his career against Woodcock. So there's that.