Canelo v. Hagler's Top Middleweight Opponents?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Aug 14, 2016.


Page 6 of 18
  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,587
    Jan 30, 2014
    Put Canelo, the Charlo brothers, and Boo Boo Andrade face-to-face with Sibson, Minter, Hamsho, and Vito, and I think it would be pretty clear which group had the bigger men.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    #76
    Pat M likes this.
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    I'm not sure how much of the fight night weight is actually beneficial muscle and how much is just fat and carbs added after the weigh in.

    If he was a fit muscular 175/180 he'd fight at LHW, but how would you expect him to fare against Beterbiev and Kovalev?
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 2, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 2, 2017
    #77
  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,587
    Jan 30, 2014
    Right but I'm also talking about his appearance in pre-fight training camps and his overall frame/musculature.

    Those guys are each probably fit and muscular at 190+ (In the 1950s or earlier, they're both decent-sized heavyweights).
     
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    #78
  4. emallini

    emallini Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    11,274
    2,539
    Mar 16, 2008
    Canelo is underrated. He is really good.
     
    emallini, Feb 2, 2017
    emallini, Feb 2, 2017
    #79
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    Appearances can be deceiving. Chris Byrd looked ripped to shreds at LHW but was weak as a feather.

    I wonder how much Canelo outweighed Floyd by on fight night, yet couldn't once impose his will.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 2, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 2, 2017
    #80
  6. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,806
    4,552
    Jul 14, 2009
    We saw how good he really is against Mayweather
     
    THE BLADE 2, Feb 2, 2017
    THE BLADE 2, Feb 2, 2017
    #81
  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,587
    Jan 30, 2014
    We've seen plenty of evidence that he can be outboxed by skilled, mobile fighters with excellent handspeed and reflexes. Not sure what that tells us about how he'd fare against Vito, Hamsho, or Sibson though.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    #82
    SHADAPBLAD likes this.
  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,587
    Jan 30, 2014
    So what are you arguing now, that Canelo wasn't very strong? Seems a bit beside the point but I think the counter-argument is very straightforward: Canelo's slow feet and questionable strategy were huge liabilities against Mayweather. FWIW, he did impose his will on some opponents who were significantly bigger and stronger than Mayweather.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 2, 2017
    #83
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    What I think I'm trying to say is a man who weighs 175 pound on a 24 hour weigh in is not comparable to a man who weighs 175 on a same day weigh in.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 2, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 2, 2017
    #84
  10. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,587
    Jan 30, 2014
    Not sure that anyone would disagree with that. And men who barely make 154 (or 155 in Canelo's case) on a 24 hour weigh in are in many instances bigger than men who've weighed in comfortably below 160 on same day weigh ins.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 3, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 3, 2017
    #85
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    Bigger doesn't always mean stronger at the weight, or more effective with the muscle though.

    There's no way of knowing how much of a benefit that 24 hour weigh in is in terms of functional mass.

    I cos I mean say this fight happened with Dobson, the day before the fight Canelo is 154 and Sibson is 159 so is 5 pounds heavier. But then a feast later and Canelo is 5 pounds heavier, how does it even work.

    I don't know enough about the science behind it.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 3, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 3, 2017
    #86
    Clinton likes this.
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,587
    Jan 30, 2014
    It's all speculative but my belief is that Canelo is bigger and heavier than Sibson was 360+ days of the year.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 3, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Feb 3, 2017
    #87
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    82,092
    22,173
    Sep 15, 2009
    I just don't know what to believe tbh.

    One has a higher official weigh in, one has a higher rehydrated weight. Hard to know the value of one compared to the other.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 3, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 3, 2017
    #88
  14. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,587
    Jan 30, 2014
    More confident than ever.
     
    mrkoolkevin, May 10, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, May 10, 2017
    #89
  15. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,692
    9,895
    Jun 9, 2010
    The problem here, it seems, is a confusion between 'weight' and 'size'.
     
    Man_Machine, May 11, 2017
    Man_Machine, May 11, 2017
    #90
Page 6 of 18