Vasyl Lomachenko vs the ATGs of his division

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Beouche, Feb 3, 2017.


Page 2 of 6
  1. groot

    groot Active Member banned Full Member

    553
    162
    Jan 22, 2017
    The only thing matrix about lomo is he saw the movie.
    Where was his matrix when saldo whip his ass ?
    Let me do the math
    Lomo 7 fights 5 ko
    Sandy 160 109 ko
    Lomo gonna get ktfo
    Sandy brutlize pep 5 times and pep is one of the slickist fighters of all times.
    (In roger mayweather voice) you dont know sh.t about boxing.
    P.s the only peds fighters used in the 40s was toughnest.
     
    groot, Feb 3, 2017
    groot, Feb 3, 2017
    #16
  2. Beouche

    Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

    23,723
    4,043
    Oct 13, 2010
    I agree, but what of his 396-1? What sort of a record is that?!

    And he's shown he can instantly adapt to the pro rankings

    Won a belt in what his 3rd fight?

    Walters was supposed to be a 50/50.... Loma ended up ruining him

    Who on earth can beat this guy? He's turning 29 in a few weeks so has plenty of prime left. And who can he beat to make him mentioned in the same breath as the guys is the OP?

    Like Gennady's shown us, you need to rely on the eye test these days more than ever
     
    Beouche, Feb 3, 2017
    Beouche, Feb 3, 2017
    #17
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,982
    48,059
    Mar 21, 2007
    An even better one than Curry's 400-4. Of course Curry had enormous potential as a pro, and looked to many people like ATG material. But then he stumbled. While building experience in the professional ranks.

    Same as Muangsurin. It's impressive stuff. Of course, few people remember him now.

    Was that supposed to be 50.50? Did the bookies have that or something? I'm very surprised to hear that. But if it's so, he's the same as every fighter that's ever won a 50.50 fight.

    I'd make Terrence Crawford a favourite. That's a little unfair, but the point is, it all depends upon what Lomachenko wants to do, has to do etc.

    Plenty of time to lose, too. It's already happened once and it could again. Is it absolutely impossible for you to imagine Mickey Garcia stopping him on a cut?

    Like other storied amateurs Donald Curry, Mark Breland, Terry Norris or Nino Benvuneti, he has an outstanding Am. record. He looks better than all these guys looked at this point in their careers, that's sure. But there's a long, long way to go. It's hard to imagine him getting much better, but we could learn more, and it doesn't all need to be good.

    That's why it's hard to pick him, despite the eye tests, over the guys in the OP. They absolutely proved themselves against the very best fighters in the world, over and over again, for years and years; all styles, all circumstances, all refereeing types etc.
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2017
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2017
    #18
    toxedo911 and Beouche like this.
  4. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,436
    2,839
    Feb 18, 2012
    That's the thing, his amateur background is so complete and extensive is their actually much room for him to improve? Not saying he is lacking in any department but the man is just about complete.
     
    Wass1985, Feb 4, 2017
    Wass1985, Feb 4, 2017
    #19
  5. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,438
    1,821
    Sep 9, 2011
    saddler's clearly a bad fight for lomachenko, especially over 15 rds and with a saddler era ref (or the one from the salido fight)

    I had him a pretty big fav going into walters, but that doesn't change the performance. I got nothing against golovkin or anyone else really, but loma's my guy as far as top level boxing goes right now.
     
    kingfisher3, Feb 4, 2017
    kingfisher3, Feb 4, 2017
    #20
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,982
    48,059
    Mar 21, 2007
    The two codes are very different. He won't change technically, like most guys at his level, probably, but he know almost nothing about nursing a narrow lead through round 11 and 12 in a very hard fight, for example. Those things are skills too.
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2017
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2017
    #21
  7. Mod-Mania

    Mod-Mania Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,705
    2,882
    Aug 12, 2012
    He beats Arguello, looses to Saddler, Mayweather pretty much 50-50, maybe slightly favour Floyd at this stage, like others I can't predict what would happen with Pep, Benny Leonard, not really seen much of him so can't really say with that one either.
     
    Mod-Mania, Feb 4, 2017
    Mod-Mania, Feb 4, 2017
    #22
  8. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,436
    2,839
    Feb 18, 2012
    Yeah he will learn to pace himself better when he can't get the knockout, he should also learn how to push the envelope more regarding fouling. In his loss he was letting the guy hit him low without doing anything back, I admire that but if someone does it to you then do it back but twice as hard.
     
    Wass1985, Feb 4, 2017
    Wass1985, Feb 4, 2017
    #23
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,982
    48,059
    Mar 21, 2007
    He fouled a lot in the Salido fight. Something like 9 clinches per round on average. But they were the wrong fouls...i mean he can for sure get smarter. But that fight was a bit of an aberration. You wouldn't expect to have to deal with a referee that inept very often.
     
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2017
    McGrain, Feb 4, 2017
    #24
  10. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

    13,452
    2,990
    Mar 4, 2014
    Loma's weaknesses are highlighted IMO in the first few rounds of Walters and Rodriguez fights.
     
    Gannicus, Feb 4, 2017
    Gannicus, Feb 4, 2017
    #25
  11. Beouche

    Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

    23,723
    4,043
    Oct 13, 2010
    Seems to me Loma takes a couple of rounds to figure out his opponent, then goes to work
     
    Beouche, Feb 4, 2017
    Beouche, Feb 4, 2017
    #26
  12. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

    13,452
    2,990
    Mar 4, 2014
    Yup, that's a good thing but not if the rounds end up becoming closer than it needs to IMO. We're also yet to see Loma expertly deal with rougher pressure which Sosa should test Loma with...and Loma should learn from.
     
    Gannicus, Feb 4, 2017
    Gannicus, Feb 4, 2017
    #27
  13. Beouche

    Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

    23,723
    4,043
    Oct 13, 2010
    In 400 am fights theres not a single style Loma wont have come up against and beaten. Sosa's going to present something different, but its not going to be anywhere near close enough to trouble Vasyl

    Im more concerned about Golovkin coming in against arguably the second best fighter in his divison who's gonna be roided out his face. But that's for another thread
     
    Beouche, Feb 4, 2017
    Beouche, Feb 4, 2017
    #28
  14. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

    930
    688
    Jul 23, 2010
    Great post.
     
    Hannibal Barca, Feb 4, 2017
    Hannibal Barca, Feb 4, 2017
    #29
  15. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

    930
    688
    Jul 23, 2010
    The Salido fight criticism is a little over done.

    1) 2nd pro fight
    2) Opponent missed weigh in by 2 lbs. Loma still went on with fight.
    3) Fight night Salido outweighed him by 11 pounds. That's effectively two weight divisions.
    4) Referee Cole. Worst referee in all of boxing. Literally. See Mares vs Agbeko.
    5) Struck in jewel sack repeatedly throughout the fight.
    6) Despite all of the above, hurt Salido in the 12th and lost a split decision.

    Does anybody really believe if this was Loma's tenth fight, or if weight was enforced, or referee was competent this outcome would be the same? My only criticism is the same I levied against Agbeko. If you sign to fight in Texas, referee Cole is not your friend. Be prepared for a Sandy Saddler like foul fest.
     
    Hannibal Barca, Feb 4, 2017
    Hannibal Barca, Feb 4, 2017
    #30
    Rock0052 likes this.
Page 2 of 6