What if ketchel ko 'd Johnson?

Johnson had issues with men weighing roughly 160-175 pounds.

He was KO'd cold by Joe Choynski.

He was outboxed according to primary sources by Jack O'Brien. A speedy fighter, who's jab was the better on that day.

And of course, he was knocked down by Ketchel. The blow landed on the top of Johnson's head. Johnson went down, rolled over, had to brace himself to get up, and was so clearly buzzed he fell down as he landed the combination that finished Ketchel, then grabbed the ropes during the count, possibly because his balance was not back yet. The film will show you this.

 

Don't mind Mendoza, he has a personal agenda against Johnson. He says he can't even see Johnson going down before the blow lands, and we're all seeing something that doesn't exists.... Riiiight. He'll mention the Joe C bout, forgetting that was Johnson was green and wasn't even at the HW limit at that point. Certainly not the fighter he grew into. Tell me Mendoza... a question you've never been able to answer..

Why is it, that once Johnson reached his prime and filled out his HW body.. he wasn't put down by bigger punchers like McVey, Joe J, Jeffries, Langford, Burns etc etc... These were bigger men, with harder punches, and yet he wasn't put down. Yet here, you expect us to believe he went down from a glancing blows? You jest

 

Ahem, Johnson had over 23 documented boxing matches when Choynski capped him, and who knows how many battle royals.

How do you know Johnson was not moving as the punch landed from Ketchel, or ducked a bit late. Jack was a master at reading the other fighters body language. Sometimes it's not how hard you are hit, but where you are hit and if unprepared anyone can be floored.

Langford was 20 and just 156 pounds when he went the distance with Johnson!

McVey a teenager for two matches, just 20 years old for the 3rd.

Jeanette who was very green, often had a losing or .500 record when he fought Johnson, yet the end he was very competitive with him!

Maybe the greenness of Jeannette and the very young ages of McVey and Langford are reasons Johnson was not floored by them.

What above is not true? You tell me! Facts are not agendas but it's no secret I think Johnson was a despicable human being, beating on the women and the sick with his bare hands.

 

Your double standards have been exposed again. When referencing Johnson's win over Sam, you note that Sam was still green and hadn't yet filled into his HW body. Those are your excuses on why the win doesn't count for much. Yet here, Johnson isn't green with LESS fights than Sam had when Johnson beat him? Odd, double standard there. Plus, Johnson, like Sam, also filled out as time went on much the same, if not more pounds than Sam gained. Yet again, that doesn't matter when it comes to Johnson.

Then you site, the ages for McVey and Joe J, which are irrelevant to discussion. Why, simple, this is about their power, not how green they were or weren't. They were knocking guys out BEFORE they met Johnson, and after then met Johnson. Their power isn't in question. They had no issue knocking other people down or out, yet they never did so with Johnson, which again, IS THE POINT.

So I'm asking again... How did all these LEGIT HW's fail to even put Johnson down the many times he fought them, yet a MW was able to put him down with a GLANCING BLOW? That makes logical sense to you? A blow he was going down from before it landed? You're a funny guy Mendoza

 

not what I or you say, it was a structured fight that turned ugly, hence the marks. why you no understand nothing when its basic obvious in front of you?

 

I've said it before, aint no fleas on fergie.

 

ah no worries, gotta disagree or it'd be a boring world if we were all just clones.

 

nothing shows you this, unless you mean the film in your head called Super Vitali vs Batman

 

Langford had more fights under his belt than Johnson when they met and neither fighter weighed in so the weights were never verified ,the same situation as the Johnson O Brien no dec bout.
Mendoza says Johnson was so badly buzzed after koing Ketchel he fell. He had enough of his senses to ko Ketchel with the first punch he threw on arising,and it is patently obvious he falls trying to avoid stepping on the unconscious,prone Ketchel.Mendoza also denies that Johnson carried Ketchel yet it can clearly be seen that he picks him up twice and steadies him after flooring him. I think the kd of Johnson is faked ,I believe he is going down before the punch actually got to him, and I say the film supports this view. Mendoza has a rabid hatred of Johnson we all know this and consequently discount his opinions. Ps You're ripping the sh*t out of him!

 

Hold on. Sam was 156 pounds and according to the best research just 20 years old! Johnson started boxing in 1897! Langford started boxing in 1902. No double standard here, just facts! Truth: Johnson beat a much smaller man who was a far cry from what he would become as a heavyweight, and was in the game for several more years when they fought.

END OF. No debating these points.

You asked why could not bigger heavies KO Johnson. Well, Klondike a big man for his day about 200 pounds did TKO him prior to Johnson fighting Choynski. GB Smith TKO'd Johnson in 1909 in a four round exhibition match.

Kaufman was a big man, but who did he really beat? He was Ko'd by a light punching Jack O'Brien, and finished 21-7, 6KO's against.

Jeffries was far too old and inactive. Willard was not, he produced a ten count KO.

I do not dispute the fact that Sam Mcvey could hit! But as a teenager, would you not say he was very raw and unrefined?

Yes or no KuRuPT?!

Power by itself without skills and experiences isn't going to produce knockouts vs a much more experienced and skilled man. McVey hardly landed anything significant on Johnson in what I read, so if you're saying this prove Johnson had a good chin based on these fights, you're wrong!

Fast fact, Mcvey had not gone past six rounds before he meet Johnson, nor had he beaten anyone that would be viewed in the top 15.

Smaller men who likely did not hit as hard as McVey knocked him down and in some cases out because they had better skills when they fought Johnson.

Finally, if you think Johnson vs Ketchel was a fix, please come out and say it. Double dare. My hunch is you will not go there.

 

For the 1000Id say Fred Ri

You don't know what Langford weighed for the fight because he did not weigh in ,neither did Johnson!
What we DO know is Langford had more fights than Johnson at that time he was not, "green".
McVey had 3 fights with Johnson they lasted a total of 60 rds! Are your seriously suggesting he didn't land any big punches on him in 60 rds? If he did, and he was the bigger, harder hitting man how come he couldn't drop Johnson ?
If in 60 rds McVey was unable to land "a significant punch," that would strongly suggest his defence was impregnable! So which is it?lol Please provide the missing Johnson fights that take him up to " 23 documented fights". ps. You need to find another 11!
I'd say Fred Russell who had beaten.
Mexican Pete Everett x 2 & Klondike would have made the top 15
So would Denver Ed Martin.
For the 1000th time Smith did not tko Johnson and neither did he claim to have done so, he punched him halfway through the ropes in a
SPARRING SESSION, there was no referee,and no verdict rendered because it was a SPAR!LOL

 

Use any confirmed weight for Langford before he fought Johnson is you must. The given weight at Box rec is 156 pounds and he was very young ( 20 years old according to the best book on him ) , starting out as pro in 1902, while Johnson started out in 1897.

Jeanette and McVey were most certainly

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when they meet Johnson

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and you could argue that Langford was green as a heavyweight too.

If you watch the Battling Jim Johnson vs McVey fight in Paris, you'll see Sam Mcvey was a crude one and shockling a but gun shy when hit. That fight took close to Sam McVey's prime Could you imagine how he looked as a teenager when he fought Johnson?!

Show me NEWS proof that McVey landed something serious vs Johnson.

Chins are best graded when hit, and crude slugging McVey, whom Langford said could no jab at all because he was bow armed landed NOTHING serious on Johnson. To parallel once could say Lewis has a great chin because he beat Tommy Morrison. But Morrison didn't land much either hence Lewis' chin was not tested in this fight!

But men like Klondike, Choysnki, GunBoat Smith, Ketchel, and Willard did land good one, and either put Johnson down or out.

 

Box rec has no idea what he weighed because he did not weigh in,and while we are on the subject ,neither did O Brien for his 6 rounder with Johnson! McVey had a terrific left hook it is well documented in both Pollack's book on Johnson ,and Moyle's book on Langford!
Yet again you are embarrassing yourself, so please continue!
McVey was gun shy when hit?
Have you read the account of his fight with Jeannette? The one described on the internet as "The Most Savage ,Unbelievable Fight In History ! "
"All accounts of the event recall Jeannette being sprawled on the canvas numerous times, up to five times in the 19th round alone, and each report marveled at his ability to endure punishment, recuperate and come back fighting. As for McVea, the number of knockdowns aside, it is also without dispute that he suffered a severe eye injury early in the match, and by the time he gave up before the beginning of the 49th round, both eyes were closed and his face was a mangled mess."
Shockling?