Mike Tyson vs Tim Witherspoon 1986

Really good post lots of good info. Witherspoon was an interesting case. If you ask me on a good night he'd be a worthy challenger for any champion. But often he looked lethardic and disinterested. I think witherspoon was a natural athlete with good skills but liked to do his own thing and enjoy himself. It says a lot about his ability as a fighter to have accomplished what he did with his lifestyle. Reminds me a lot of riddick Bowe and speaking of bowe him and Witherspoon would've been a great fight

 

Its not just solely based on his testimony alone. It's based on a conglomeration of events that built up around that time.. Tim witherspoon's beating Smith soundly a year earlier then losing in one round to a man who had shown no real marked improvement. The ongoing and well documented disputes with Don King that ultimately led to legal action. Spoon threatening to pull out of the Smith fight but going forward with it after being threatened by king.. And the TWO testimonies from Witherspoon which remained consistent over a 20+ year period that he outright took a dive which did nothing to save his reputation as taking a dive in boxing is viewed as more damaging than an actual loss. Then came Witherspoon's being black balled from alphabet ratings for about 3 years after that bout. Now when taking any of these facts "individually" anyone can pick all this apart and say it means nothing. But when taken "collectively" it amounts to quite a bit and is a tad far too coincidental for me to dismiss... People will choose to believe what they will.... I choose to believe this was a dive....

 

That's the thing, though. That wasn't the only fight he claimed to "throw." He claimed he did while with King and when he wasn't with King.

The whole argument that he did this or that to "be rid" of King is fine, if he didn't do the same things when he WAS RID of King.

He fought GREAT on occasions when he was with King and without him. He looked like hell when he was with King and when he wasn't with King. He claimed to throw a fight when he was with King and when he was RID OF King. He took drugs before fights when he was with King and without King.

At some point, they're all just excuses.

When he won, he meant to win. When he lost, he meant to lose.

If you haven't read Witherspoon's book, I encourage you to do so before defending him. Being "honorable" wasn't something he practiced inside or outside the ropes.

Witherspoon wasn't the brightest bulb. If they rated heavyweight champions based on common sense intelligence, Witherspoon and Leon Spinks would probably be at the bottom of the list.

 

At the time I thought Witherspoon didn't care about winning that Smith fight in 1986.
The week leading up to that fight was crazy, with Tubbs and Witherspoon both complaining about money, pulling out of the fight and being threatened by King. Every day a different headline saying the fight was on or off or on again. It was fairly obvious Witherspoon arrived in that ring against his will and he had a sick look in his eyes before the bell rang.

People here know I often don't buy after-the-fact excuses for fighters, but I will say the circumstances surrounding the Witherspoon-Smith fight were extraordinary.
That was at the height of Don King's hold over the division. In those days he was using his son Carl King as a "manager" to Witherspoon, allowing him to coerce Tim into the ring.
After the fight, the strange things continued, with the NYSAC originally declaring that Witherspoon had tested positive for marijuana again, which they later admitted was an error.

 

I don't believe for a minute that he threw EVERY fight he ever lost.. But Spoon vs Smith II was quite dubious and for more reasons than just his testimony alone.

 

Not surprisingly, they were friends. If you watch the Witherspoon-Eklund fight, Bowe gives Tim a big hug afterwards in the corner.

 

Well then all the others should be "dubious" too, shouldn't they? You're going to believe he "threw" the fight he got his teeth knocked out in, but you're not going to believe the "threw" the other ones?

 

Losing a tooth in a fight where one man isn't trying while the other is going balls out isn't surprising to me at all and frankly I don't see why you put so much stock in it. About the only thing I'll agree to here as that the truth behind that fight is too cloudy to make any solid convictions but I've never been 100% convinced that it was on the level either.

 

It's not like anything would've happened if he had tested positive other than paying a fine. He tested positive after the first fight with Tubbs and he just paid a fine.

And if King wanted Witherspoon to lose, like I mentioned, there were young fighters who appeared to have a bright future on the undercard who could've stepped in - like Tyrell Biggs, Mitch Green and Jimmy Clark - who Tim Witherspoon hadn't already beaten and probably would've sold more tickets than were sold for Tubbs or Smith at Madison Square Garden. Green was from New York. Biggs and Clark were both from Pennsylvania. Instead, Smith who was from North Carolina and was considered a no-hoper (having already lost to Spoon).

The WBA was bending over backward for Witherspoon like they'd done all that year, by letting him fight Smith.

Instead, Witherspoon got blindsided by Smith ... and then Tim fell into the pattern he practiced throughout his career of ... "Well I meant to lose."

 

If you can point to any "dive" in boxing history ... where the guy "diving" went down THREE TIMES and got his teeth punched out in the process ... I'd love to hear about it.

If Sonny Liston had gotten his teeth knocked out by the "Phantom Punch" ... I doubt anyone would still be calling that a dive.

When someone goes down three times and gets his teeth knocked out in the process, most of us just call that getting your @ss kicked.

I've got to go. Talk to you later.

 

Agreed. Very odd affair indeed.

 

Adios...