What will it take to dislodge Ali & Louis from 1&2?

It's unlikely, in my opinion.
Especially with the advent of internet, twitter, 24-hour coverage, a zillion channels, endless interviews, an increasingly critical media. Idealized heroes like we had from the past are impossible, since most the boxers are exposed as young men with very ordinary human flaws and everyone fan with a keyboard has an opinion and potential influence.

 

surely the spoken word was the equivalent of this back then.

 

yes, ty, although I shoudda said romanticised, not romantic, or its verge on becoming ga.y thread.

 

There are too many words and too many voices now. Everything is fragmented. Consensus culture icons, "Gods" and myths are not as easier to create now.

 

surely they are easier to create, since you can use the web which is available to almost anyone near a PC, rather than those who can buy newspapers.

 

Unfortunately no. Joe came in the era of WW 2, and his legendary fight with M.Schmelling was the catalysis for the rest of his career. Plus the fact he was a humble man and supported the military , and was exciting to watch , Created the love for him. To the point where his deficiency's are overlooked. Ali came when the Heavyweight division had some of the best fighters in the history of the division. S.Liston,G.Foreman,J.Frazier, vicious punchers like Lyle and Shavers and that he was willing to fight anybody created his legend. From the late 30's thru the mid 90's Boxing was a premier sport,especially heavyweight championship fights. Boxing has regressed since then. Now the best athletic bigmen are defensive ends, or power forwards. The heavyweight boxers today,get in the sport late, usually failures from other sports. And don't get the proper training fighters from the past received, and are rushed thru just to make a dollar. And factor in the amateur game has regressed (esp in America) and most of the legendary trainers are dead. Not just the heavyweight division but the entire sport itself has regressed. So not only the legends of A Louis or A Ali would be hard to match. But the Durans, the Robinsons, Armstrong, and many many others will not be surpassed by the mordern era.

 

Ah ah yes Herol don't mince your words oops meant mix.

 

I think it will be a good few years before we get a name as significant as Mike tyson tbh. If tyson farted u read about it, which is not to say skill level or anything else compared to Ali or Louis.

 

It will take someone who is young; who is dominant; who has longevity; who defeats recognizable, quality competition; someone with a true rival that everyone wants to see him fight; and who makes or has a strong, cultural impact. (With Louis it was WWII and Schmeling's supposed Nazi ties, and with Ali it was Vietnam and Civil Rights.)

Mike Tyson looked like he might do something early on ... before he lost to Douglas and went to jail. Vitali Klitschko got a couple of the pieces right. He got involved in the whole Ukrainian political scene while he was boxing ... and that may have developed into something if he had a big Russian rival that would reflect the battles between Ukraine and Russia. But he didn't face great competition overall, he didn't have any true boxing rival that he had to vanquish (other than his brother, who he refused to fight) ... and quitting against Chris Byrd kind of took him out of the running early on.

With so many fighters from around the world turning pro, and with the world being such a volatile place, I'm sure it'll happen (meaning Ali and Louis will be surpassed) sooner rather than later.

Some heavyweight from the Middle East, China, Africa, Eastern Europe or some terribly poor nation, who brings different rival groups together (like Barry McGuigan did with the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland when he was fighting).

It'll happen.

 

Powerful niche audiences are much easier to create because of social media.

What's a bit harder, is a "larger than life" mass audience icon coming about. I agree with Uf that it's harder, but I think those figures can still come to in this day and age.

Obama has that kind of aura to him.

I would attribute Ali's fame more to his genius mind rather than the mediums of media at the time. He had a certain mentality that could make a dent in any era.

 

Just need there to be someone who when I watch them fight I think "he'd beat Ali and Louis"

 

That would be a somewhat less rigorous test than asking somebody to surpass their accomplishments.

 

It's also a whole lot more fun to judge.

Research into records is tedious, watching fights is awesome. I know which one is rather build my list around.

 

Ali isn't the best heavyweight of all time and Louis isn't close to being the second. You know who believes this? People like you people of this boxing forum. Whatever the media tells you to believe you will. You get so in love with your TV heroes that you want to think they are more than they are. That is why Mike Tyson fans will always try to act like he was the best. That is why idiot Marciano fans will never understand that Rocky was a joke.

Joe Louis didn't fight guys who were as good as Lewis, Foreman, Bowe, Tyson ( Tyson is good just not as good as his fans make him out to be) Holyfield, and others. Louis fought the most part fought guys who would be considered light heavyweights or cruiserweights by modern standards. When he did face a bigger guy they were just big slow lumbering bums. Most of the fighters Louis fought were limited skilled white guys. If Louis would of fought in the 70's 80's 90's or 2000's he would be considered a cruiserweight himself and if he gained the 10 pounds to be allowed to fight modern heavyweights he would be just be considered a journey fighter who got knocked out by all the top guys.

Ali fought nobody in the first part of his career. Don't give me washed up overrated Liston who best wins himself came against D level Cleveland Williams and 170 Floyd Patterson. Who else would you consider great who he beat before his 3 year layoff? George Chuvalo who he struggled with while George Foreman and Joe Frazier destroyed him?

Then when Ali came back at 28 his dimwitted fans will pretend that was old and he was past his prime. Even though Guys like Ron Lyle and Ken Norton were the same age Ali was and weren't considered old. Frazier beat Ali. Ali won the 3rd fight because Frazier was going blind in one eye. Norton beat Ali all 3 times and got robbed 2 of those times. I explained to you how Ali never intended to lay on the ropes against Foreman and how his only plan was to hope not to knocked out. He got lucky because Foreman fought like a idiot and then he ducked Foreman in the rematch.

Name one person who was a modern sized heavyweight that Ali fought, who was considered world class and in their primes that Ali completely dominated? You can't name one because it never happened.

I hate when people who live in their fantasy world crying over TV people call one person the greatest. Like people calling Michael Jordan the greatest. How was he better than Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, or Wilt Chamberlain? They have no answer. Just like how is Ali or Louis the greatest?

There is no 1 or 2 greatest. I would have a top 10 greastest heavyweights of all time and you could put 10 people on the list at random now stating who is the overall best. Even if I did that Louis wouldn't be on the list because of his horrible ability to take a punch ( Amir Khan has a George Chuvalo chin compared to his) and the level of opposition he fought. To be great you have to fight other world class fighters ( not necessarily Hall of Fame) and win by dominant fashion. If all of your best wins in your career are over D level opponents like Louis, Marciano, Dempsey and others then you aren't great. If you struggled against every top level fighter you face and only win because of their mistakes not because of your own talent then you aren't great.

Greatness rarely happens. You people need to stop calling every one of your TV heroes great. In fact stop having TV heroes in the first place. These people aren't anybody you should be crying over or and defending.