What will it take to dislodge Ali & Louis from 1&2?

You definitely embody the principle that the stupidest people are the most certain about their beliefs!

 

Your a hard marker blackhercules !! Facing and overcoming adversity is the sign of
greatness. Leonard vs Hearns and Hagler vs Hearns. Only a few fighters in their prime
reached you incredibly high standards and that was a prime Roy Jones Jr , Sugar Ray
Robinson at welterweight and Willie Pep at featherweight before plane crash.
You do make some compelling arguments but i don't judge fighters against other era's
but i judge by how and who they fought in their timeline to determine greatness .

 

If Joshua beats Wlad and then makes at least 25 defenses, he'll be up there but still short of the amount of wins Ali and Louis had over top 10 ranked opposition. That tells you how supremely hard it is to top their achievements.

It also gets harder today since it's hard to get the top fighters to fight each other and fighters often have few fights once they reach the top. If you make 1-2 defenses every year and the first half of those are only for part of the title, you'll be ancient well before you reach 20-25 defenses of the undisputed title. Wlad seemed to dominate forever and how many defenses did he have for the undisputed title? Not even 15 was it?

 

It is basically going to take 20+ title defences and nearer 30 wins over ranked opposition, just for there to be a strong argument.

 

It's more than numbers. What makes an ATG fighter?

Heart. The ability to fight on and not quit in tough battles.

Cleverness. The ability to avoid punishment.

Toughness. The ability to take a punch.

Power. The ability to land ko blows.

What gets lost today is the importance of heart and will to win. In the hwt division there is a long history of ATG champions you could hit with a hammer and they would still keep coming. You cannot rate another champion alongside these fighters unless they prove their toughness. It's important criteria historians look for.

 

I could see someone having a Holmes-like or Wlad-like career but retiring undefeated and having topped Marciano's record. That might be enough for first tier.

 

Wladimir smashes AJ, Parker and Wilder. Unifies. Rematches Fury and beats him. He reitires and those four go on the become the Fab 4 of HW in the next 10 years. Job done.

Got anymore weed?

 

Are you Senor Pepe in disguise?

 

Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey being between Ali and Louis imo.

 

What if Wlad wins ?
And then defeats a couple of other top-ranked fighters and retires.
He has to be up there.

 

Don't think so, really. He would still be quite a way from both in terms of defenses for the undisputed title and wins over ranked opposition. And he's also lacking a Liston, Frazier or Foreman (not to mention three of that calibre). Add to that devastating KO losses to unranked opp while being at the very least in his physical prime.

If he did what you suggests, he'd be in the discussion with Holmes, but still short of Ali and Louis.

 

How does someone ever become world class if to become world class you have to beat other world class fighters?

 

He ought to already be in the discussion with Holmes, who was never unified or undisputed champion either, and who is accused of missing several of his leading contenders in his 7-year reign.

Wladimir has been ranked almost continously since the year 2000. At #1 for the greater part of that time.
His unbeaten run from 2004 to 2015 was 22 straight wins, several over ranked opposition, 9 years and 19 straight wins for a major world title(s).
If he beats some of the top guys now, in 2017-2018, his longevity is even more ridiculous.

I'm not arguing my personal point of view or list here, but I'm saying based on some reasonable objective standards Wladimir is at least very close. I couldn't find a solid argument against him.

 

thats in a way like saying what if rocky beats ali in a comeback, to be fair.