What will it take to dislodge Ali & Louis from 1&2?

So you dn't give Wlad much chance of getting a few more wins then ?

 

oh no, I mean I think he can win a few more fights but at below top ten level.

 

Has AJ made your top ten yet ?

 

He has great longevity, but that's also on count of not fighting very often. Yes, Holmes missed some of the top guys during the latter part of his reign, but Wlad missed the top opponent of his time plus some others.

And he's still slightly behind Holmes in terms of belt/title defenses (not counting WBO, that is) and probably in terms of wins over ranked opp. You could argue that he makes up for this with his overwhelming dominance in almost all his wins. But a significant difference would still be that Holmes had no prime loses, while Wlad has two, arguably three (if you think he was in his prime at almost 23 and with 25 pro fights), bad ones. Perhaps they were due to (BIG) flaws he later remedied, but we'll never know for sure. Holmes also had a very credible comeback past 40. So for now he's ahead of Wlad in just about every aspect except dominant wins.

But if Wlad would have a good comeback now that he's reached 40, I think he'd narrow the gap. Perhaps all the way. But he'll still be behind Ali and Louis unless he does something truly extraordinary.

 

certainly hes current top five, although the top five currently has been nothing to brag about.

Unforgiven, the difference is in the gas. You cannot expect a 40something man to match what a prime athlete is doing for 12 rounds, even part of that.

Wlads game has relied on being conditioned enough to beat guys who sag by the mid rounds. Joshua is too prime for this to happen, although his days of loss of fitness will come. But for Wlad, his massive frame is only going to hold him back now, having been prone to more injuries due to his size and being near impossible to keep in top condition outside his prime. Hes not going to be on his feet long unless joshua carries him.

 

Decent post by Herol.

We take note and await your massive props should Wlad actually beat AJ.

 

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if he catches Joshua with a big left hook in round 2 and finishes it from there.
I'm not saying that's my prediction but I wouldn't be surprised.

Joshua is possibly very open to be hit by someone with similar size and actual top-rate knowledge of boxing. So far, Joshua has knocked out 18 men, about 16 of them were bums.
Joshua fires off some impressive combinations against that level of opponent but he's developed no real defense outside of sheer intimidation.

 

and yet joshuas not been close to being koed on any occasion.

wlads ko record is exactly the same in content, but hes displayed, whilst prime, a chin that caved in against such opposition on repeated occasions.

So I'd expect old Wlad to cave in.

If wlad wins, he makes a strong case for HoF on his own merit (outside his case for HoF for being one of two brothers holding titles at once). Entry into top 15 ATG may be possible with further wins. But its a weak chance of a win at best.

 

But where do you get your faith in AJ from ? He has fought hardly anyone who even made much attempt to punch back. He's taken very few solid shots in 18 fights.
He might well be an even worse version of a young Wlad.
His defense and his chin might prove to be utterly pathetic in a true HW fight, we don't know. He doesn't know either.
At least Wlad knows about his own chin and has devised his style around that. Anthony Joshua might just being living in ignorant bliss, waiting to get blasted out like Wlad himself was blasted out by Sanders.

Let's be honest, an OLD Wladmir could have bashed up Whyte, Martin, Breazeale and Molina without getting hurt either.
So how can these wins prove AJ doesn't have all of old Wlad's chin problems and worse ?

 

I agree. We know very little about Joshua so far. I think he passed a test when Whyte hurt him, though. He didn't panic and took over again as soon as the cobwebs cleared. That might also been an important lesson to not be overconfident and careless when he thinks his opponent is ready to go. But even this old inactive version of Wlad is likely on another level to Whyte.

 

Yeah, I think AJ's done everything asked of him and handled that shot from Whyte pretty well.
But if Wlad's still capable of landing the kind of left hook he buried into Pulev's face early on, the resulting effect on AJ might be a different universe to what Whyte could muster.

It's an intriguing fight. I can see it going lots of ways. A one-sided wipe-out for either man wouldn't surprise me at all either.

 

Agree. Just so many unknowns going into this fight. Makes it extra exciting.

 

It wouldnt take anything because labeling someone greater is subjective opinions .No matter what you did its what each thinks that make them greater than the other.

 

What will it take? Above all else objectivity. I think Holmes > Louis

 

Certainly not on paper.

You could argue that Holmes could have beaten Louis head to head, but then i could say that Jack Dempsey might have beaten both of them, and you just can’t prove it either way.