What fights have you watched today?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jan 28, 2017.


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  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Rutten is a hard guy to rank h2h. He's got some very sweet striking but virtually zero takedown defence. Yet once he's on the ground he is very skilful and hangs with the best of them. Yet AGAIN, I've seen big wrestler types lay on top of him and he could not escape.
     
    BCS8, Feb 12, 2017
    BCS8, Feb 12, 2017
    #46
  2. pablinov

    pablinov Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Great write ups luf, thanks for sharing them.
     
    pablinov, Feb 12, 2017
    pablinov, Feb 12, 2017
    #47
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It is very difficult.

    These early HW greats don't seem as well rounded to me. Shamrock looked like the full package in his prime. Mark Kerr looks awesome but I know he's about to capitulate.

    I see now why the pride HW fighters (Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop) are considered amongst the best ever.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 12, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 12, 2017
    #48
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  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    No worries mate, I'm enjoying the journey myself :)
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 12, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 12, 2017
    #49
  5. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Kerr imploded mentally. He was incredibly strong but fragile mentally. He didn't like getting hit much, a kind of a Lesnar type. Actually Kerr / Lesnar would have been awesome. Money's on Kerr.

    It really goes to show how much fighting is a mental game. Little midgets like Igor and Fedor objectively have no business at playing at heavyweight, yet they were very successful in part to their calmness under fire and willingness to travel to hell and back for the win.

    There was a guy in Pride that I loved, a dude called Akira Shoji. He was a little stubby dude who used to ritually write out his will before every match, just so that if he had to die in the ring, it was OK because his affairs were in order. A true samurai. Alas, because he was small and because the Japanese like freak shows (heyyy! let's pitch the midget against the sumo wrestler, lulz) he got the shyte beaten out of him through his career, but he always left it all in the ring. I can't help but respect that.

    The Pride HW's were on another level at that time. Nogueira and Cro Cop were well rounded and super skilled at their particular disciplines. But Fedor was the guy that could analyse the other guy's gameplan and blow through it like a tornado. When he entered Pride it was against Heath Herring, who was a scary dude at the time. I remember Rutten and Quadros commenting, and desperately trying to sell little, harmless-looking and pudgy Fedor as a legit opponent for the hulking Herring. "He's not a gimme," said Quadros. LOL. Heath took a career-ending beating that night. He came in with some crazy hairstyle out of starwars and Rutten, ever the comedian, said, after the fight "Now his face matches his hairstyle."
     
    BCS8, Feb 13, 2017
    BCS8, Feb 13, 2017
    #50
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  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah I feel I'm getting a decent understanding because I'm watching them in order and reading stuff from that time.

    I normally would never do something as in depth as this but with MMA being a new sport it's not too onerous a task.

    Plus loads of pride fights are on YouTube so I didn't have to buy them.after UFC 50 I'm gonna just watch the "best of" DVD's to speed up the process.

    Even though I know Kerr capitulates I find it hard to envision right now because of how dominant he's looked. Everyone calls him Coleman + because of his skill set, but obviously Coleman has the two big victories over Severn and Frye. Although he also has 3 big losses in a row now.

    It feels like I've gone back in time when I watch these events.

    My Mrs is sick of it though lol.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 13, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 13, 2017
    #51
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  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Waching that old stuff for the first time was fantastic for me. I got some light weights and did triceps and sholders while parking off in front of the pc. My Mrs also got tired of it :lol:

    Edit: doing the dishes and mopping seemed to calm the beast down ... for a while ;)
     
    BCS8, Feb 13, 2017
    BCS8, Feb 13, 2017
    #52
  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Hopefully Lufcrazy's Mrs unshackles him soon so that he can continue his series :)
     
    BCS8, Feb 16, 2017
    BCS8, Feb 16, 2017
    #53
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  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    UFC 19.

    This event has no tournament whatsoever. What it did is show a few things.

    There are no single disciplines any more everyone is now a MMA and the rules are starting to be implemented to make it a fair fight.

    Maurice Smith has proven to be a one off man who took advantage of a poorly conditioned Mark Coleman.

    Tito Ortiz has burst into the top echelons with his rematch victory over Guy Mezger.

    Jeremy Horn beats Lidell for hs first loss to keep himself in title contentions.

    Evan Tanner picks up another victory and looks good in doing so.

    Over in Pride 5 we see Vovanchyn keep up the race for top spot between him and Kerr. (Rutten is still number 3 for me at present) Mark Coleman throws a fight to earn a contract with Pride.

    The big story though is Kazushi Sakuraba. Giving up 22 pounds and beating Vitor Belfort in dominant fashion was astonishing. Yeah Belfort broke his hand, but he did that because Sakuraba blocked his furious flurry very cleanly in the opening minute. After that we saw some great kicking, takedown and ground game by Sakuraba.

    It is marginally more impressive than Gracie beating Shamrock for me which means we have a displacement at the top of the tree for the first time in 6 years.

    Some decent moves in the rankings after this.

    1 Kazushi Sakuraba
    2 Royce Gacie
    3 Ken Shamrock
    4 Mark Kerr
    5 Igor Vovanchyn
    6 Bas Rutten
    7 Randy Couture
    8 Vitor Belfort
    9 Frank Shamrock
    10 Pat Miletich
    11 Rickson Gracie
    12 Dan Henderson
    13 Tito Ortiz
    14 Mark Coleman
    15 Dan Severn
    16 Don Frye
    17 Evan Tanner
    18 Guy Mezger
    19 Renzo Gracie
    20 Jeremy Horn
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 17, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 17, 2017
    #54
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  10. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Yay! You're back.

    I'd forgotten how good Sakuraba was at the time. So, so creative. His match against Carlos Newton was dynamite. In Pride the influx of insane talent is about to begin. I remember that there was some boring-ass fighter called Malenko that used to lay n pray to victory. Then he ran into a guy called Wanderlei Silva, who was absolutely terrifying in his heydey. Man, the early MMA was so much fun.
     
    BCS8, Feb 17, 2017
    BCS8, Feb 17, 2017
    #55
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It's strange because I know some of these guys go on to be legends cos I recognise the names, but I don't know how each individual match goes cos I don't remember the resume.

    So I've just seen early Belfort tear through UFC like Tyson, come up short against the future HW champ but he's clearly being lined up for a shot at Shamrock were he'd be a huge favourite.

    I also see this WW fighter who's lied about his weight to enter a UFC tournament and who is dominating world class fighters with a mixture of showmanship and the best grappling abilities I've ever seen.

    I didn't know Sakuraba beat this man, let alone dominated him.

    The two stand out victories so far in MMA are Gracie over Shamrock and Sakuraba over Belfort imo.
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 17, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 17, 2017
    #56
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  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    UFC 20

    Wanderlei Silva redeemed his early destruction by Belfort to win with a very good performance, he's on a good run of form now and breaks into my rankings for the first time.

    Pedro Rizzo maintains his unbeaten run and puts himself as one of the best HW fighters in the world.

    Randlemann and Rutten have an extremely close fight that went to the wrong man. Rutten gets the nod but two less than dominant performances highlight that there is a decline going on here.

    Over in Pride the usual suspects in Sakuraba, Kerr and Vovanchyn keep on winning. Newton also returns to winning ways.

    Elsewhere in the world of MMA we have Rickson Gracie going inactive and pretty much taking his hype with him. Despite a big rep it hasn't been proven in the ring and we all know it never will be. Couture loses again in controversial manner. A man named Kiyoshi Tamura is on a good run of form as well to put himself in the running. Miletich is submitted and maybe he wasn't quite as good as we all thought. Tanner loses over in Pancrase although the it's hard to say how on the level it is.

    Quite a strange couple of months with a lot of the early greats picking up losses.

    Comparing Randlemann and Rizzo with Severn, Frye and Coleman is very hard. Severn and Frye dominated a shallower field, Coleman is losing close decisions, throwing fights and walking straight into a head kick but he has some great victories. Randlemann is a lot improved from the fighter 2 years ago and could easily have received this decision. Rizzo is on a very good run of form but I don't see how he would beat Severn or Frye right now.

    After all the shakes and moves I find myself in July 1999 with the following ATG rankings:

    1 Kazushi Sakuraba
    2 Royce Gacie
    3 Ken Shamrock
    4 Mark Kerr
    5 Igor Vovanchyn
    6 Frank Shamrock
    7 Bas Rutten
    8 Randy Couture
    9 Vitor Belfort
    10 Pat Miletich
    11 Dan Henderson
    12 Tito Ortiz
    13 Mark Coleman
    14 Dan Severn
    15 Don Frye
    16 Kevin Randlemann
    17 Pedro Rizzo
    18 Evan Tanner
    19 Renzo Gracie
    20 Jeremy Horn
    21 Carlos Newton
    22 Kiyoshi Tamura
    23 Wanderlei Silva
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 21, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 21, 2017
    #57
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  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    UFC 21 and 22

    It's all changing now, new 10 point must system and 5 minute rounds means decisions will actually mean something rather than a holistic overview of a fight.

    This has been a very hectic period now. Sakuraba and Silva remain on winning form. Vovanchyn beats Kerr to stake his claim as the best HW in the world and probably the best striker in MMA history so far.

    Over in UFC Miletich and Horn keep on winning and Lidell impresses very much with a big performance over Jones.

    Obviously the big story is Frank Shamrock beating Ortiz. What a great performance this was.

    I can't make my mind up whether to rank him above Ken or not.

    Either way as of September 1999 it's now looking like

    1 Kazushi Sakuraba
    2 Royce Gacie
    3 Ken Shamrock
    4 Frank Shamrock
    5 Igor Vovanchyn
    6 Mark Kerr
    7 Bas Rutten
    8 Randy Couture
    9 Vitor Belfort
    10 Pat Miletich
    11 Dan Henderson
    12 Tito Ortiz
    13 Mark Coleman
    14 Dan Severn
    15 Don Frye
    16 Kevin Randlemann
    17 Pedro Rizzo
    18 Jeremy Horn
    19 Evan Tanner
    20 Kiyoshi Tamura
    21 Wanderlei Silva
    22 Chuck Lidell
    23 Renzo Gracie
    24 Carlos Newton
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 21, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 21, 2017
    #58
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  14. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Hendo lurking in those ratings. What a great career he went on to have!
     
    BCS8, Feb 21, 2017
    BCS8, Feb 21, 2017
    #59
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Well he's about to win King of Kings next
     
    lufcrazy, Feb 22, 2017
    lufcrazy, Feb 22, 2017
    #60
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