A Look At The Careers Of Lee Oma & Tami Mauriello.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Feb 13, 2017.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,070
    27,898
    Jun 2, 2006
    It's been suggested on another thread that the reason Lee Oma had so many losses is that because he was fighting so frequently, he was bound to lose some fights . For purposes of comparison I want to look at a contemporary of his ,Tami Mauriello, and to determine if this argument holds water.
    Lee Oma
    Active from
    12th Oct 1939 until 12th Jan 1951, total 11 years 3 months
    96 fights 64 wins-28 losses-3 draws
    Notable wins:
    Bob Satterfield
    Nick Barone
    Tommy Gomez
    Freddie Beshore x2
    Gus Lesnevich
    Lou Nova
    Tami Mauriello
    Joe Baksi

    Losses
    J J Walcott
    Ezzard Charles
    Pat Comiskey
    Bob Satterfield
    Tami Mauriellox2
    Joey Maxim
    All excusable 3 champions and 3 contenders of sorts
    Losses to:
    Buddy Walker x2
    Phil Muscato x2
    Bruce Woodc*ck * I'm not convinced this was a real effort from Oma

    Still losses to decent fighters.
    Less excusable are losses to
    Henry Flakesx2
    Colion Chaney
    Inexcusable perhaps are losses to :
    Bob Sikes
    Booker Beckwith
    Erv Sarlin
    Jack Marshall
    Big Boy Brown
    Johnny Denson* Some thought this was a fake
    Orlando Trotter
    Tiger Warrington
    Eddie Camp
    Willie Muldune
    Altus Allen
    Oma's notable wins indicate he had talent , his losses to journeyman that he lacked dedication and drive.
    Tami Mauriello
    Active 25th July1939-5th Oct 1949 total 10 years 2 months.
    96 fights 82 wins 13 losses -1 draw.
    Notable wins:
    Lou Nova
    Lee Oma x2
    Lee Savold
    Red Burman
    Bruce Woodcock

    Losses
    Cesar Brion
    Joe Dominic
    Gus Lesnevich x4. 2 At Light heavyweight
    Joe Louis
    Johnny Shkor
    Lee Oma
    Joe Baksi
    Jimmy Bivins x2
    Billy Soose At middleweight
    Mauriello beat Oma 2 out of 3 and lost to Baksi and Lesnevich whom Oma beat.
    Tami lost his last 2 fights to Joe Dominic and Cesar Brion when he was 36 years old no disgrace there. Losing 4 fights to Lesnevich isn't a black mark against him either, nor is dropping 2 close decisions to Jimmy Bivins He lost to Soose a fine boxer by narrow decision and he was a 160 pounder then.The Shkor loss was caused by a bad cut.
    No comment on losing to Louis is necessary!
    I think what we see here is Mauriello only losing to good fighters, not being stopped by journeymen as Oma was on occasion.
    Both men had the same amount of fights, both had the sort of schedule but Mauriello crammed his into a year less and emerged with15 less losses and I dont think that can be explained by saying he was better than Oma ,as Oma has better wins I think its that Mauriello was more dedicated to his craft and generally in better shape than Oma.It's not because Oma has a busier schedule, he didn't.
    To sum up, Oma dropped decisions and was stopped in fights he might have won had he been in better condition, his choice, and his fault!
     
    Nighttrain likes this.
  2. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    269
    Jun 25, 2012
    Another difference, Mauriello was a puncher and a ticket seller, Oma was a cutie,and a crafty boxer. I dont think the woodcock fight was on the level either.
    The Inexcusable losses to: some of those losses could be explained by oma not being in shape and taking those losses cos he didnt train or took those fights seriously or was partying the night before. But the fact is a record doesnt make the fighter, he rose to the occasion when he had to and was at one point highly ranked. Apparently the losses didnt hurt his career, he still earned his ranking.
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    50,312
    23,319
    Jan 3, 2007
    Mauriello was actually a pretty good fighter and probably fun to watch. Tough guy with a decent chin and good punch.
     
    Pedro_El_Chef and mcvey like this.
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,553
    Nov 24, 2005
    I've always figured Mauriello to be a very good fighter.
     
    Pedro_El_Chef and mcvey like this.
  5. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    269
    Jun 25, 2012
    Mauriello injured his leg as a kid, which limited his mobility as a fighter. Also it didnt hurt that he was Italian and from NY in selling tickets, he was a popular fighter at the time. He unlike Oma had a homebase.
     
  6. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    15,903
    7,623
    Mar 17, 2010
    I appreciate the breakdown Mcvey.

    What about a larger sample size? If you pick 10 fighters from the era, how many suffered obscure losses to journeymen? And did those losses come at times of high activity?

    Maybe we can join forces on this one.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,070
    27,898
    Jun 2, 2006
    He didn't rise to the occasion when he was being stopped by journeymen, he was basically squandering his talent because of a lack of dedication.I'm not arguing about how highly he was ranked, I'm attempting to explain why he lost so many fights his ability indicates he should have won.
    https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/...crumb=Vc.KC/vQfbz&hsimp=yhs-btyuser&hspart=bt
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,070
    27,898
    Jun 2, 2006
    I believe the accident to his leg meant he had difficulty backing up.Being Italian may have sold tickets, but he still had to win the fights after they had been made.Bottom line he showed up focused and in shape ,Oma very often did not.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,070
    27,898
    Jun 2, 2006
    I've broken my new rule in making a thread ,I told myself I wouldn't bother again . If you want do so, go for it! Ill leave it to you. You'll make a better job of it anyway. I think I have proved Oma lost quite a few his fights because he was more interested in,
    "extra -curricular activities, not because he had a particularly insane schedule.
     
  10. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    269
    Jun 25, 2012
    I was adding little factoids to fill out what people might know about Tami, being Italian helped get him fights cos promoters knew he could sell. Of course he had to win the fights that goes without saying. We knew that Oma was a party animal and didnt train diligently. I thought this thread was about Rez's theory. I would like to know more about that. What I thought was an insane schedule was Louis' comeback 9 fights in 11 months, today he would be extremely lucky to get in 2 more then likely only 1. In your analysis there is another factor to consider, Mauriello, was taken care of, got paid better and had a homebase. Oma on the other hand, Oma wasnt, he had to take fights wherever and whenever they were offered cos simply put this is how he earned a living it was his job. I know all fighters are fight nto make a living, but some get taken care and others have to scramble like was apparently the case with Oma.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,070
    27,898
    Jun 2, 2006
    Oma was based in NY was he not ? So I guess he would have had a home base too. He also had the benefit of both Ray Arcel and Manny Seaman as trainers but ,similarly to Eddie Futch with Riddick Bowe they could only do so much ,they can't give you self discipline,that comes from within. Plus he had two healthy legs to stand on.
    You're perfectly entitled to add what you wish,after all we make threads in the hope others will be sufficiently interested in them to comment don't we?
     
  12. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    269
    Jun 25, 2012
    rez, can you flesh out your theory? It would be interesting if there was more proof, some guys can maintain a rough schedule and some cant but its an interesting premise.
     
  13. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    3,576
    2,516
    Jan 9, 2017
    Regarding Oma. He has two really bad streaks.

    In 1941 he went 2-9 and disappears for two years when America enters the War.

    In 1947 till summer of 48, he drops 5 straight fights.

    I think there is a story behind those two streaks. Possibly he was fighting injured or in poor health or not training for whatever reason.

    Take those away he's 64-14-3. That's very respectful and on par with the average modern heavy win% of around 80 percent.

    So what the hell happened to Oma in 41 and 47?

    When he returns to action in 43-47. He goes 36-8-1. Very respectful.

    Starting in June 48, he rebounds and closes his career with a good 18-3-2 record. His three losses to Woodcock, Charles, and Satterfield.

    Of those 18 wins...he avenges the Satterfield defeat, beats Beshore x2, Tommy Gomez, Vern Mitchell, Nick Barone, Fitzpatrick, Muscato, Agramonte, and Lowry.
     
  14. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    269
    Jun 25, 2012
    mcvey: Oma was based in NY was he not ?
    NY is a state, NYC is a city within that state and so is Buffalo NY. Buffalo is upstate, NYC is the big apple. Something like London and some smaller city in England. The Bronx is a section in NYC.

    So I guess he would have had a home base too.
    Not necessarily Buffalo is way smaller city, Oma was Polish from Buffalo. Here's how you can tell who had a fanbase or not.
    In the 23rd fight for both:
    Lee oma 10-12-1
    Tami Mauriello 23-0

    -Mauriello fought 16 fights out of the 23 in the Bronx where he was born and raised, which had a huge Italian population in fact all of NYC had a huge Italian population. He fought 7 fights in Manhattan all 23 fights in NYC.
    Italians were huge boxing fan's much like today's Mexicans and Puerto Ricans who support their fighters.

    -Oma on the hand fought here, there and everywhere, not once in his hometown, in his first 23 fights.

    -plus Mauriello had power and a style that precluded his movement, always on forward awkward in reverse.

    He also had the benefit of both Ray Arcel and Manny Seaman as trainers but ,similarly to Eddie Futch with Riddick Bowe they could only do so much ,they can't give you self discipline,that comes from within. Plus he had two healthy legs to stand on.

    Trainer or trainers mean nothing in terms of a fanbase, the guy with only one good leg had the advantage cos he fought in NYC and had a built in fanbase, and believe me being Italian helped.
     
    Seamus likes this.
  15. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    269
    Jun 25, 2012
    The Kentucky Cobra,

    Starting in June 48, he rebounds and closes his career with a good 18-3-2 record. His three losses to Woodcock, Charles, and Satterfield.


    Very good breakdown. In 41 & 47,who knows but they always said he was a playboy, and a womanizer he might have gotten more then his share lol

    Of those 18 wins...he avenges the Satterfield defeat, beats Beshore x2, Tommy Gomez, Vern Mitchell, Nick Barone, Fitzpatrick, Muscato, Agramonte, and Lowry.

    Gomez and Satterfield are in just about everybody's top 100 hitters of all time.