It's been suggested on another thread that the reason Lee Oma had so many losses is that because he was fighting so frequently, he was bound to lose some fights . For purposes of comparison I want to look at a contemporary of his ,Tami Mauriello, and to determine if this argument holds water. Lee Oma Active from 12th Oct 1939 until 12th Jan 1951, total 11 years 3 months 96 fights 64 wins-28 losses-3 draws Notable wins: Bob Satterfield Nick Barone Tommy Gomez Freddie Beshore x2 Gus Lesnevich Lou Nova Tami Mauriello Joe Baksi Losses J J Walcott Ezzard Charles Pat Comiskey Bob Satterfield Tami Mauriellox2 Joey Maxim All excusable 3 champions and 3 contenders of sorts Losses to: Buddy Walker x2 Phil Muscato x2 Bruce Woodc*ck * I'm not convinced this was a real effort from Oma Still losses to decent fighters. Less excusable are losses to Henry Flakesx2 Colion Chaney Inexcusable perhaps are losses to : Bob Sikes Booker Beckwith Erv Sarlin Jack Marshall Big Boy Brown Johnny Denson* Some thought this was a fake Orlando Trotter Tiger Warrington Eddie Camp Willie Muldune Altus Allen Oma's notable wins indicate he had talent , his losses to journeyman that he lacked dedication and drive. Tami Mauriello Active 25th July1939-5th Oct 1949 total 10 years 2 months. 96 fights 82 wins 13 losses -1 draw. Notable wins: Lou Nova Lee Oma x2 Lee Savold Red Burman Bruce Woodcock Losses Cesar Brion Joe Dominic Gus Lesnevich x4. 2 At Light heavyweight Joe Louis Johnny Shkor Lee Oma Joe Baksi Jimmy Bivins x2 Billy Soose At middleweight Mauriello beat Oma 2 out of 3 and lost to Baksi and Lesnevich whom Oma beat. Tami lost his last 2 fights to Joe Dominic and Cesar Brion when he was 36 years old no disgrace there. Losing 4 fights to Lesnevich isn't a black mark against him either, nor is dropping 2 close decisions to Jimmy Bivins He lost to Soose a fine boxer by narrow decision and he was a 160 pounder then.The Shkor loss was caused by a bad cut. No comment on losing to Louis is necessary! I think what we see here is Mauriello only losing to good fighters, not being stopped by journeymen as Oma was on occasion. Both men had the same amount of fights, both had the sort of schedule but Mauriello crammed his into a year less and emerged with15 less losses and I dont think that can be explained by saying he was better than Oma ,as Oma has better wins I think its that Mauriello was more dedicated to his craft and generally in better shape than Oma.It's not because Oma has a busier schedule, he didn't. To sum up, Oma dropped decisions and was stopped in fights he might have won had he been in better condition, his choice, and his fault!
Another difference, Mauriello was a puncher and a ticket seller, Oma was a cutie,and a crafty boxer. I dont think the woodcock fight was on the level either. The Inexcusable losses to: some of those losses could be explained by oma not being in shape and taking those losses cos he didnt train or took those fights seriously or was partying the night before. But the fact is a record doesnt make the fighter, he rose to the occasion when he had to and was at one point highly ranked. Apparently the losses didnt hurt his career, he still earned his ranking.
Mauriello was actually a pretty good fighter and probably fun to watch. Tough guy with a decent chin and good punch.
Mauriello injured his leg as a kid, which limited his mobility as a fighter. Also it didnt hurt that he was Italian and from NY in selling tickets, he was a popular fighter at the time. He unlike Oma had a homebase.
I appreciate the breakdown Mcvey. What about a larger sample size? If you pick 10 fighters from the era, how many suffered obscure losses to journeymen? And did those losses come at times of high activity? Maybe we can join forces on this one.
He didn't rise to the occasion when he was being stopped by journeymen, he was basically squandering his talent because of a lack of dedication.I'm not arguing about how highly he was ranked, I'm attempting to explain why he lost so many fights his ability indicates he should have won. https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/...crumb=Vc.KC/vQfbz&hsimp=yhs-btyuser&hspart=bt
I believe the accident to his leg meant he had difficulty backing up.Being Italian may have sold tickets, but he still had to win the fights after they had been made.Bottom line he showed up focused and in shape ,Oma very often did not.
I've broken my new rule in making a thread ,I told myself I wouldn't bother again . If you want do so, go for it! Ill leave it to you. You'll make a better job of it anyway. I think I have proved Oma lost quite a few his fights because he was more interested in, "extra -curricular activities, not because he had a particularly insane schedule.
I was adding little factoids to fill out what people might know about Tami, being Italian helped get him fights cos promoters knew he could sell. Of course he had to win the fights that goes without saying. We knew that Oma was a party animal and didnt train diligently. I thought this thread was about Rez's theory. I would like to know more about that. What I thought was an insane schedule was Louis' comeback 9 fights in 11 months, today he would be extremely lucky to get in 2 more then likely only 1. In your analysis there is another factor to consider, Mauriello, was taken care of, got paid better and had a homebase. Oma on the other hand, Oma wasnt, he had to take fights wherever and whenever they were offered cos simply put this is how he earned a living it was his job. I know all fighters are fight nto make a living, but some get taken care and others have to scramble like was apparently the case with Oma.
Oma was based in NY was he not ? So I guess he would have had a home base too. He also had the benefit of both Ray Arcel and Manny Seaman as trainers but ,similarly to Eddie Futch with Riddick Bowe they could only do so much ,they can't give you self discipline,that comes from within. Plus he had two healthy legs to stand on. You're perfectly entitled to add what you wish,after all we make threads in the hope others will be sufficiently interested in them to comment don't we?
rez, can you flesh out your theory? It would be interesting if there was more proof, some guys can maintain a rough schedule and some cant but its an interesting premise.
Regarding Oma. He has two really bad streaks. In 1941 he went 2-9 and disappears for two years when America enters the War. In 1947 till summer of 48, he drops 5 straight fights. I think there is a story behind those two streaks. Possibly he was fighting injured or in poor health or not training for whatever reason. Take those away he's 64-14-3. That's very respectful and on par with the average modern heavy win% of around 80 percent. So what the hell happened to Oma in 41 and 47? When he returns to action in 43-47. He goes 36-8-1. Very respectful. Starting in June 48, he rebounds and closes his career with a good 18-3-2 record. His three losses to Woodcock, Charles, and Satterfield. Of those 18 wins...he avenges the Satterfield defeat, beats Beshore x2, Tommy Gomez, Vern Mitchell, Nick Barone, Fitzpatrick, Muscato, Agramonte, and Lowry.
mcvey: Oma was based in NY was he not ? NY is a state, NYC is a city within that state and so is Buffalo NY. Buffalo is upstate, NYC is the big apple. Something like London and some smaller city in England. The Bronx is a section in NYC. So I guess he would have had a home base too. Not necessarily Buffalo is way smaller city, Oma was Polish from Buffalo. Here's how you can tell who had a fanbase or not. In the 23rd fight for both: Lee oma 10-12-1 Tami Mauriello 23-0 -Mauriello fought 16 fights out of the 23 in the Bronx where he was born and raised, which had a huge Italian population in fact all of NYC had a huge Italian population. He fought 7 fights in Manhattan all 23 fights in NYC. Italians were huge boxing fan's much like today's Mexicans and Puerto Ricans who support their fighters. -Oma on the hand fought here, there and everywhere, not once in his hometown, in his first 23 fights. -plus Mauriello had power and a style that precluded his movement, always on forward awkward in reverse. He also had the benefit of both Ray Arcel and Manny Seaman as trainers but ,similarly to Eddie Futch with Riddick Bowe they could only do so much ,they can't give you self discipline,that comes from within. Plus he had two healthy legs to stand on. Trainer or trainers mean nothing in terms of a fanbase, the guy with only one good leg had the advantage cos he fought in NYC and had a built in fanbase, and believe me being Italian helped.
The Kentucky Cobra, Starting in June 48, he rebounds and closes his career with a good 18-3-2 record. His three losses to Woodcock, Charles, and Satterfield. Very good breakdown. In 41 & 47,who knows but they always said he was a playboy, and a womanizer he might have gotten more then his share lol Of those 18 wins...he avenges the Satterfield defeat, beats Beshore x2, Tommy Gomez, Vern Mitchell, Nick Barone, Fitzpatrick, Muscato, Agramonte, and Lowry. Gomez and Satterfield are in just about everybody's top 100 hitters of all time.