David Tua vs Rocky Marciano

I agree, they would have to come in lighter if everyone was clean from PEDs. Many years ago, generations even, there was a limit to how much each boxer could carry and still be effective. But advances in the level of physical performance that can be achieved in the following years, not all of them legal, have irreversibly changed these limits for each individual.

We don't yet know What level of physical performance is responsible to PEDs for all the years of undetected drug taking. We can't say if it will improve further and we can't say it will reverse. All we can say is we probably cannot make comparisons anymore between then and now without factoring in all these aspects.

This does not detract from what is a great fighter. A fighter who is proven to be great within his time is great because he is competing with other products of the same environment. A modern great fighters significance cannot be reduced or increased in another time ...and nor should a past great fighters significance be reduced or increased in another time. Each are a product of their own environment.

 

A lot of the better performances we see are from better equipment also. I saw Andrea Degrass who won silver in the 100 meters trying to beat Jesse Owens time under the same conditions and was slower by over a half second. Owens ran in the 30s

Baseball still uses a wooden bat and Mickey Mantle has the furthest home runs. Mantle played in the 50s.

 

Yes with longer fights, shorter men and less time for rehydration fighters did come in lighter.

Most came in at the CW limit up until the 60's.

But we can match up Primo Carnera with Lennox Lewis and favour Lewis to win.

 

i think that carnera would do much better against lewis than he did with joe louis

 

I doubt he gets out of the first round tbh.

 

Carnera was a giant but his training was limited to the way things were then. It's obvious that it was rarer for that kind of man to make the grade as a boxer in those times. Although a very strong man and remarkable for the day there is no way we can say with everything that goes on now that there is nothing more that could be done to turn Primo into a better athlete.

Lennox was a great champion and a product of his environment. I don't want to take anything away from him because he proved himself against all the other products of that environment and he came out on top by some margin. To me, put that kind of champ in any era and they will be good enough to come out on top once they adapt.

However, 100 years from now they will get even more out of the human body and push more performance out of a human as they can today and who knows, a guy no better than Primo might be able to match the way Lennox Lewis was able to dominate, not because the future primo careers would be better than Lennox Lewis but because he has the access in the future to benefit.

So A better example to match 1930s Primo with might be Tyson Fury. He is comparable in size to Primo and we know he was a drugs cheat. We don't have to presume like we do with Lennox.

All anybody is at the end is a product of their environment.

Put Carnera in with Tyson Fury who wins? Take the PEDs away from Fury who wins?

 

Epigenetics is what your looking for.

 

No I'm gonna match him with Lewis.

I pick Lewis by destruction. Carnera just wasn't as good.

Not matching him with Fury as he's still too much of an unknown.

 

Cheers.

 

Well yes, Lewis is better than Carnera.

But let's consider Fury. How much of Fury depended on the illegal enhancement that Primo Carnera never got to benefit from? Why cant we make that comparison, Fury beat the real world champion, surly he qualifies if he never fights again? Why is he an unknown if he was champion?

How about Luis Ortiz? I remember you were a bit hasty and fancied Ortiz over Jersey Joe Walcott until one lacklustre performance brought you to your senses. That guy is a drugs cheat too. This era is awash with these drugs cheats and their 50lb for every two inches of "evolution".

 

it is a crazy afirmation, Louis was much faster than Lewis and he was a combo puncher,Louis was a smaller faster target than Lewis so he was much harder to hit, Carnera was naturally much bigger wider than lewis and physically much stronger , lewis was a natural 235-238 pounder and carnera's lowest weight was 260 , the effectiveness of your style change according the description of your rival,
i could go with lewis by decision or late tko but i doubt that it would be the one sided beating that you say

 

Where is the proof that Carnera was physically much stronger than Lewis? Carnera's weight was all over the place he scaled 250lbs for the Schaaf fight

 

please... carnera could make 280 pounds and looking natural,muscular and not fat.. at 260 he was ripped like a Greek Sculpture without a grame of fat, if you want a version of lewis with the same % of fat it was the 227 pounder version that fought ruddock .
Canera was perfect at 270 and very mobile for his size and lewis was ponderous and packed of mass at 245. carnera was a wrestler, he had to reduce weight to compete in boxing, he was naturally much bigger, his bones were giant, of ****ing course he was physically much stronger than lewis

 

This thread is still going?

Yes Tua was knocked down. Tua sometimes had a lack of heart. He punked out vs Chris Byrd, and looked liked he didn't want to be in there vs Lennox Lewis.

 

Carnera was not a wrestler before he was a boxer he did strong man stunts in a little carnival.Joe Louis manhandled Carnera and he was conceding 64.5lbs to him! You don't know WTF you're talking about!