Who's greater Miguel Cotto or Juan Manuel Marquez and why?

for the record i like both guys they are both in my top 15 favorite fighters to watch but marquez is "greater" however if they fight cotto will stop him

 

Is this really a question? Marquez for his rivalry with Pac alone. That was one of the greatest rivalries in the history of boxing. Epic 4 clashes between two ATGs with an even more epic finish. And it happened in the modern era not in the LaMotta times when everyone was fighting every month.

Cotto didn't do nearly as well against the ATGs he faced (Floyd and Pacquiao) and those fights show that he simply doesn't belong to that level despite being bigger than the both of them. Couldn't handle Canelo either.

If Marquez were the size of Cotto he would probably walk through Cotto's resume with only two losses (Floyd and he'd get robbed against Canelo). He would obliterate Margarito (padded gloves or not) and with the weight advantage Pacquiao would be KOd in the first fight.

 

When I look at who is greater, I normally look at who achieve greater heights. Since both win titles in 4 seperate weight class, it's a washed there. However Marquez had victory over ATG in pac and Barrera, while cotto biggest win was probably an injured Martinez and sugar Shane. Marquez is the greater fighter, plus cotto also has bigger Low compare to Marquez, whose all loses are disputable decisions except Floyd.

 

I think it's Marquez quite clearly. I don't put a lot of value into his losses at these higher weights (PBF/Bradley) as he should be absolutely no where near Welter.

 

Both my favorite fighters. Marquez is an ATG, Cotto a Hall of Famer. Marquez has wins over fellow ATG's Manny Pacquiao and Marco Antonio Barrera close enough to their primes. Cotto has one over an older Shane Mosley. The rest of their resume is somewhat comparable but those wins make a big difference.

 

JMM>Diva

 

Floyd > JMM > Pacquiao > Cotto

In that order of ATGness. Irrefutable.

 

JMM for me

 

Cotto is greater.
Champion in 4 weigh classes and LINEAL middleweight champ.

Also, the fact that Floyd just toyed with JMM in a fight that wasnt about size (mayweather never forced his size advantage) but about skill. Cotto bloodied up Floyd and took rounds. Too bad he had his garbage cuban trainer that night in a highly competitive fight.

The losses to Bradley and Chris John really hurt Marquez's legacy. Cotto's only comparable ugly loss to a lesser fighter was to Trout.

 

Against the lesser opponents. Cotto has nobody on his resume comparable to Pacquiao and Barrera.

Style and dimensions were far more to blame. Put Floyd in there against a counter-puncher with the same reach advantage and watch him struggle.

Judah, Maidana, Hatton, De La Hoya, Castillo, all won more rounds against Floyd, it doesn't mean they were more skilled, they had size, dimensions, and in most cases a better front foot game than JMM. Doesn't mean all around they were smarter or more skilled.

Meanwhile Cotto lost to both Floyd and Pacquiao while Marquez beat Pacquiao. And Cotto was bigger than Manny.

The John fight was a robbery and Bradley is much greater than Trout, and JMM came much closer to beating Tim than Cotto did Trout that night. And he was much older and at a weight class he shouldn't have really been competing in.

Basically every point you made favors Marquez when viewed in proper context.

 

No, Bradley schooled Marquez because marquez cannot box any slick fighter that doesnt come straight to him. Marquez didnt land a single solid shot that fight.

His quality wins are lacking im sorry. Katsidis, Orlando salido, Juan diaz - those were solid wins over prime fighters. Casamayor was a solid win too (they were both old by then), and i give little props to the barrera win (where he narrowly defeated a completely shot version of barrera)

Cotto has more wins over prime fighters.

 

and dont mention Pacquiao. He had a draw and two losses against Pacman. He knotched his first win by KO when they fought as old men. Great fight, quality win, but legacy's arent judged by how well you fought on "the old man circuit"

 

Notable Losses for JMM are Bradley and Mayweather? Lol, you outdid yourself this time. A career featherweight losing decisions to Welterweights is "notable". Good one.

 

Marquez had clearly lost a step, is a small welter, and made the rounds close. Of course he landed solid shots that fight, are you blind? He hit Bradley with several big right hands. From the first round he was landing sharp left uppercuts.

Marquez beat Derrick Gainer and Joel Casamayor who were both slick.

In any case, Bradley is better than Trout and Marquez was farther gone in his career than Cotto when he lost to Trout.

Pacquiao and Barrera>>any of Cotto's wins. Beating an All Time Great in their prime goes a long way in defining all-time-great ranking for a fighter. These two wins tower over Cotto's resume and are both better than his top win, Mosley. As for the rest:

Casamayor is at least on par with Martinez. Both were very good close to HOF level, both past their best, Casamayor somewhat fresher, and both men moved up directly to fight them.

Salido is at least on par with Judah. Juan Diaz is roughly equivalent to Clottey. Juarez, Peden, Katsidis, aren't far from Torres, Corley, and Bailey.

So while their B and C level opposition is fairly similar, Marquez's A-level wins are much better. That's not even counting the fact that Marquez arguably beat 4 different versions of Pacquiao throughout his career. There's no argument Cotto ever did anything better in his career.

 

Right, I'm sure people are going to remember JMM's legacy as just knocking out Pac when they were old men. Please. Those fights are all disputed, the third one especially, and the rivalry is legendary. Anyone who thinks JMM didn't win any one of the first 3 fights is delusional. He has a case in each one and sealed the deal on a night Pacquiao was looking sensational.