Heavyweight Top Ten

I'm not sure how you can have Witherspoon in a top 25 and not Walcott or Schmeling. Obviously Johnson is too low in my book, but that is just me.

 

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Larry Holmes
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Mike Tyson

 

only h2h ability in no particular order:

Ali
Holmes
Bowe
Lewis
Tyson
Holyfield

 

I find a hard time to rank them in particular order, but that would be my h2h list too , plus Foreman for top-7

 

Head to head you can. Timmy had super heavyweight dimensions, good skills on offense and defense, fine power, and a very solid chin. Don King black balled him. But Witherspoon is close to Walcott or Schmeling in the ratings. Really when you get down that far, on any particular day one could be better than the other, but if you ask me I take Witherspoon over Schmeling and Walcott.

Johnson best win was over whom? Likely Burns. His wins over Langford and McVey happened when they were 19 or 20, and Jeannette a raw novice with a sometimes losing record.

His title defenses to me are very weak, and at times he struggled in title defenses vs their two heavyweights. Losses to the likes of Choynski, Griffin and Hart are factored in. Had Jonhson fought and beaten McVey, Langford, and Jeanette from 1909-1914 as champion, he'd rate higher.

 

I'm thinking about mine.
I always find Joe Frazier, the hardest to place. FOTC win against the GOAT says it all, but little after.

 

1-2 Ali and Louis

Then in no particular order, but next 8 fighters are in my top-ten

Jack Johnson
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Wlad Klitschko

 

The problem is, many would do the exact same thing. If a fighter today had already beaten, as a professional, somebody 3 or 4 or 5 times... do you really think it would be needed to fight him again? Certainly a great number of people who see no need to, or even want to see such a match. No way Jeffries can be 5, when Johnson completely destroyed him. Whether he was older and not prime matters little, since Jeffries himself didn't beat anybody good that was in their prime. All is beat wins are against over the hill fighters who were once good. But that got him to 5, and 13 spots ahead of somebody who utterly toyed with him and destroyed him? Odd

 

Good apart from Foreman.
I weary of how overrated he is.

 

Interesting that you rate Sonny so high. Much higher than many others ?
Interested in your reasons ? I find him and Frazier the hardest to place.

 

Foreman 6.
Oh Fergy, i thought you were sane ?

 

But Marciano completely destroyed Louis. Tunney made Dempsey look very bad and likely would have stopped him at least once had the fights not been ten rounds.

Who rates both Marciano and Tunney over Louis and Dempsey? My point very few! I do not factor in much a loss when the fighter is old, shot or very inactive, which was the case with Jeffries loss to Johnson.

I must disagree. Bowe vs Holyfield fought three times. Patterson vs Ingo fought three times. A good fight is just that, so please make sure it happens in a title match.

Langford, Jeannette, and Mcvey continued to fight each other while Johnson was champion even though they fought each other prior.

I actually think Jeffries title run was decent. 5-0 vs hall of fame enshrinees, beating all of them at least once when his opponent was in his prime. And destroying the rest.

Of the puncher's he's got the best chin and stamina with what would be solid ale of the tape size even today. And he's one of the most athletic, and strongest, which is why I rate him highly. Prior to 1970, he often rated 1-4, over Ali and Louis on many lists. Lack of film sunset awareness to how good he was once those who saw or had first-hand testimonials passed on.

 

Not too often that I agree with Mendoza, but Jeffries's loss to Johnson means nothing. He was 35, coming straight out of five years of inactivity. Let's say Ali retires in 1972, sits on his ass for five years and then goes straight out to face Holmes. It wouldn't be pretty. I can't see anyone doing that and looking good against an ATG.

 

If we are talking only worlds hwt champions Witherspoon never attained that distinction. Neither did Norton.

 

Dempsey was a far greater technical fighter than Marciano.