George Foreman , overrated ?

George was as successful as he was because of the times. George coming back say during the Holmes era would not have ended as well.

 

Peter Wilson "the man they could not Gag" 1977:

"Foreman hadn't the speed of the young Patterson or the genius of clay. But at that time I believed he might well be the most talked of young heavyweight in the world - if he could only find a really good tutor. I really thought he was better than Frazier at the same stage of development, but I shall always feel he didn't find that "really good tutor" or, at least, not in time- or he would never have fought the asinine battle he waged against Clay in Zaire six years later. Previously his power of punch had been enough to win thirty seven of the forty professional fights he had inside the distance-but bludgeon alone is not enough against Clay"

"George Foreman was having his 16th professional fight in just under 8 months, against the Argentinian Gregorio Peralta, then nearly thirty five. It turned out to be only his third fight to go the distance. In this case ten rounds. I could not legitimately quarrel with the verdict, which was strongly in favour of Foreman, I made it much closer, and I think had I been able to watch more closely I should have been less surprised that I was some four years later by Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clays victory over Foreman."

"I regretted not being in Jamaica to see George Foremans stunning upset of Joe Frazier, slightly less that I wasn't in Zaire to see Muhammad Ali regain the title from Foreman- less because, even through the medium of television, it seemed almost unbelievable that a world class heavyweight champion could fight as brainlessly as Foreman did"

I think this is an example of the kind of writing of the day that supports the train of thought that, Before he came back, Foreman was seen as a kind of flawed talent eliminated from ATG discussions.

 

It is very interesting reading what was thought of George Foreman during his first retirement:




The great Heavyweights Henry Cooper 1978

Where did Foreman do it wrong? Or was he never as good as we thought he was?

I think now in retrospect, that Foreman was never in love with the game. He liked the glory and he like the finance, but you have got to have more than that. You have to love the game in some strange way. Because that what, when the going gets tough, gets you off the canvas and back at it. You've got to be able to get up off the deck and come back punching. But Foreman had never been down until Ali decked him. It must have been a bit of a shock to say the least.

I think also, that when Foreman at last got round to the Ali fight, after waiting to have his eye heal, he could easily over trained.

Early in 1976, Foreman knocked out Ron Lyle in five rounds before repeating his victory over Frazier, but from then on he bothered less and less with the game, confirming my theory that once his big money days were over, George was not too keen on the fight business.

Frank Butler, The Good The Bad And The Ugly 1986

"Poor Foreman was never the same fighter, he never regained his self confidence and two years later Quit boxing to become a preacher.

Gilbert Odd, Encyclopaedia Of Boxing 1983

At 6'3" and weighing 220 pounds Foreman was big enough and he soon showed he possessed a lethal right hand punch. He was unbeaten in his first 37 bouts, all but three of which ended inside scheduled course. Even so, It was not thought he could beat Joe Frazier, yet he did so, knocking the champion all over the ring and out for the count in two rounds. Foreman made two easy defences and then faced Muhammad Ali who was making his second comeback. Ali was 32 and he was not expected to stand up to Foremans thunderous punching. But cleverly, he let Foreman wear himself out on the empty air and then proceeded to box him dizzy and knock him out in eight rounds. Foreman did little serious boxing after that debacle and retired in 1977.

 

So far zilch.

 

I think boxing literature on the career of George Foreman written during his first retirement , that asks "was Foreman ever as good as we thought he was", that he fought a "asinine battle" against a guy he was expected to beat, never got over it, lacked confidence, that he fought "brainlessly", missed out on a really good tutor to teach him to fight, that even questions if he "ever loved boxing enough in the first place" really asks more questions than answers regarding Foremans all time worth up to that point.

How many other champions were called asinine in their prime?

It all adds up to George being a great talent with flaws, who quit boxing in his prime rather than address these flaws, A closed book, a flash in the pan.

So No, it is not zilch at all.

 

Again I lived through the era. Try to find top ten ATG lists from pre comeback that shows George listed. The reason he was not listed or thought of as a great is just as what has been offered......unwritten book, lost badly to the two best fighters he fought, lack of stamina, quit after a loss in his prime, was showed to be much less than unbeatable in his title loss to Ali. Of course his comeback changed all this.

 

Correct.

As a kid You couldn't find books that rated Foreman. He had seemingly won the title as a work in progress then Ali burst his bubble. Everyone spoke of his power but the way I remember it George was a "what could have been" kind of guy who didn't pan out the way he could have.

 

1975

Ring Magazine all time greats

Heavyweight

1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Dempsey
3.Jim Jeffries
4.Jack Johnson
5.Rocky Marciano
6.Gene Tunney
7.Bob Fitzsimmons
8.Jim Corbett
9.Muhammad Ali
10.Joe Frazier.

 

Interesting, yet ali's greatest accomplishments were before 1975.
Do you mind if i plagiarize that information and make my own thread on this?

 

Gordon you are vastly underplaying Foreman and his abilities. In his prime few hwts could defeat him. It was not until his comeback where he proved his toughness and determination (criteria that must be shown for ATG status) that people put 2 plus 2 together making George an ATG.

 

Regarding Ring rankings it's very logical. True historians do not jump to decisions regarding ATG status lightly. Ali entered that ranking after beat Foreman. He became top five once beating Frazier in 75. Generally one does not rank a hwt champion until that champions career is just about over and all the boxes checked.

 

How on earth was he a flash in the pan when his career amassed 3 decades and he boxed at top level till he was near 50 years old?

Forget about what they said at the time.

At the time they said Rocky was a crude brawler with no skills. At the time they said Cooney was going to bomb out Larry Holmes and even had Cooney walk to the ring last and Larry the champ first

You have to understand box to realise how great Foreman was. Mike Tyson a student of the game was terrified of him. Teddy Atlas knew his guy was getting stopped before the fight even began.
If he was around from 2003 onward from 38 you would see how great he really was. The 90's was too good of an era , nobody got the chance to establish themselves as the best. The best fights all happened beyond their expiry date. Apart from Bowe vs Holyfield which is why imo Bowe was the greatest 90's HW.

 

Now you are overstating the case. Foreman is an ATG because of his second coming. Without it he makes noones top ten. Adding together his entire career he checks all the boxes for a ATG hwt champion.

In terms of boxing ability George at his best was a human wrecking ball of a fighter. Granite chin, determined with brutal ko power in either fist. Not a speedster but deceptively quick with great ability to cut the ring and a pile driver jab. On the negative side he had a porous defense and could be outboxed at a high level. The major issue he had was his all out assaults to stop an opponent left him gassed after 5-6 rounds.

 

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