IYO, who else in heavy history could have destroyed frazier in 73?

Prime Frazier? now that's a very short list of fighters.

The Joe Frazier who beat Bob Foster was incredible. If you study that fight, just from a boxing aspect, without taking into account the power deficit, Frazier was beating a fast, long armed ATG light heavyweight to the punch. It's unique.His use of distance perfect. There was no skill deficit at all.

Not many champions beat that Frazier. He doubled up and shortened distance of punch to range instinctively. Think of Joe Louis and how long it took for him to catch up to Billy Conn! Tyson, Holmes, Bowe, Lewis really would not have an edge against that guy.

But that's not the guy George Foreman fought. Not one bit. This depleted version who let Ron Stander climb all over him...no it's a different guy. That 73' Frazier would be a sitting duck for Tyson, Holmes, Lewis, Dempsey, Marciano, Joe Louis and maybe even the prime versions of Bowe, johansson, Baer and Liston too.

 

I think Lewis would try to take out Joe quickly similar to the ruddock, golata fight s. He certainly has the power. Liston i see it turning in to a Williams sort of battle with both men hurt. Louis has a excellent chance if he gets Joe early as foreman did. He had the finishing punch if he had u hurt.

 

Out of curiosity how do u see a 68 frazier doing against the 73 George? I struggle to see any frazier beating foreman but would have been a interesting match up.

 

It's not just a question of power. It is a question of having enough power right on the end of the punch to prevent the faded version of Frazier from getting close. Lewis would qualify for this, Liston too BUT only against the version Foreman fought.

The prime version of Frazier, the one who could beat the longer armed Ali and Bob Foster to the punch AT RANGE was a different species altogether. This would take away the edge from Lewis and Liston because they then have to deal with the pace and frequency of power blows Frazier could double up at any distance or angle. Those guys cannot swap enough or defend against so many heavy blows under that kind of pressure.

 

Everything you said in your opening paragraph is true, plus Joe was singing with his band more than he was training. Yank Durham had earlier pleaded with him to retire. Potentially any number of HW's couldve blitzed Joe that night.
Anything you or i say on this is gonna be seized on by George Fanboys supporters so thats me done on the thread.

 

Absolutely agree with that. Frazier was similar to marciano and dempsey in that it looked like they were just come forward slugger s. But each of them had there methods of getting in close and taking away the other guys advantages. Frazier was very good at that. He wouldn't have beaten ali the first time if just a mere slugger /swarmer.

 

I agree Lewis would try to be aggressive for a couple of rounds. After that he would box and be more cautious.

 

Hi gg. I'm totally neutral on this. It's definitely not a statement on how great George is but rather who else was good enough to ko frazier that early. In my opinion Lewis and Louis definitely could. Not banging the drum for foreman mate.

 

All the experts in 1973 incredibly forecast a 68 version of Frazier turning up for the Foreman fight in 1973! If it was that version, I doubt they would have got it wrong. The experts were actually right, they just based it on the wrong Joe Frazier.

There was absolutely nothing on Foremans 1972 form -a run of awful miss matches that deserved any real concern to a Frazier who no longer existed at that time.

Nobody really felt Fraziers decline since the Ali fight was sufficient to give Foreman (completely untested and regarded a work in progress at that time) a realistic chance.

Obviously we have spent 44 years living with the image of what actually happened. So it is difficult to imagine any possible alternative result. But the truth must clearly be Frazier was a lot worse for wear than anyone realised and Foreman was equally a lot better than anyone realised.

Prime for prime that means a lot better version fights Foreman who even though he was better than the experts all thought he was, is still a pretty green prospect who Ali totally schooled and practically humiliated into early retirement. So I have to side with the experts who all knew how great the earlier version of joe Frazier really had been.

 

Thats a good post

 

Good points cl. Can remember reading that foreman was given no chance against Joe. Before the foreman ft remember frazier was undefeated, had beaten ali and most of the top names and was still young. Foreman was just seen as a big guy with a not bad record. Think that's made it more shocking.

 

The experts could not predict Frazier had no more elite wins left in him. The later record shows Frazier never managed another Elite win. But The experts could never know this.

So really, had Frazier possessed an elite win to give, like all the experts of the day thought he might, it really would have been a different fight.

And that's not taking anything away from Foreman. He took care of business, he raised his game and did what it took, shook the world and all of that.

 

Thats ok my friend. It was this fight that created the Foreman monster legend/myth , depending on your standpoint.
Frazier later got himself back in better shape , but for this fight he looked terrible. He looked fleshy and had been massively less dedicated since the FOTC. Its gonna be taken badly by GF fans, but Joe was riding for a fall with his lifestyle.
GF brutalised him, no doubt, although for all GF being such a great puncher Joe kept getting back up) but its only possible to speculate that anybody who could bang early, before a guy gets going, couldve done the same to him. Anybody from a Lennox or Peak Tyson , through to a Bonecrusher Smith ( re Witherspoon fight).

 

I get where ur coming from. A prime frazier fully fit brings a whole different dimension to it. And while it's always going to be a tough fight for Joe against foreman it would be a different ball game.

 

Marciano koed other top guys with ko blows. Mathews and Layne are examples. Walcott was an attrition battle until the one punch ko. I could envision quite easily Marciano beating Joe to the punch with his right as he throws his hook for a ko win.

 

They forcasted Joe to win for two reasons:

1). Joe, like Foreman prior to fighting and losing to Ali, was thought is as being unbeatable.

2). No one understood at that time just how powerful Foreman was.

No Frazier has a chance in the ring against prime Foreman. Too strong, too powerful.