George Foreman , overrated ?

unusual then that you don't remember Foremans absence from top ten ATG ratings before the comeback..

 

Good discussion.
Personally, I can't remember George Foreman being hailed as an all-time great prior to about 1990, that became more so, and absolute consensus, in 1994.
(In 1973-'74 I'm sure he was regarded as an ATG in the making, or ATG "head to head" but that was before the Ali defeat etc.)

Around 1987 when he came back he was a former champion, somewhat enigmatic and obscure. Not an ATG.
This is my perception, as I said previous.
Haven't seen anything here yet to the contrary though.

 

As McGrain has painstakingly and fruitlessly tried to get thru to you - one doesn't have to be on a top ten list to be an ATG. This really isn't a difficult concept.

 

John I am providing the history since I lived through those times and boxing was very near and dear to me as was Foreman. It's up to you now since you neither have evidence or first hand knowledge to back up what you believe.

What you believe is wrong. It is not historically accurate.

 

Ahhhhh. Your from Australia. How can you think you in your wildest dreams know all the details of what America boxing history was during that time. I would not even try to pretend I know the details of history in your country. You are, obviously, extremely out of touch.

 

Hundreds of american magazines and loads of boxing on FTA tell me different. Oh, and an open mind

 

When Riddick Bowe came back for a fight in 2004 and 2005 I remember thinking he was pretty much the same status as Foreman had been in the 1980s.
Still, to this day, Bowe's not put in the same bracket as Holyfield, Lewis and Tyson. Him deserving "ATG" status is a hotly disputed topic.
Same with Foreman in the 1980s, except in those pre-Wwweb days of course there was far less discussion, so ex-champiions could become far more easily obscure/forgotten.

 

Bowe should never be considered an ATG. Not close.

I have a huge family in Melbourne and I communicate with them concerning boxing and it's history. They are always off base concerning these matters. A very distorted viewpoint as your viewpoint is also highly distorted. Goes with the territory.

 

George Foreman's historical reputation seemed back then to be off a briefly destructive monster/puncher/bully who was exposed by Muhammad Ali as somewhat less than great.

Some had a similar (though slightly different) view of Sonny Liston but I think by then Liston was getting far more appreciation, especially due to facts/doubts that benefited him that Foreman didn't have ..... eg. the fact that he was "old" against a young Ali, the doubts over the legitimacy of his losses, the fact that he'd taken on and defeated the quality contenders before given a belated title shot, the fact that a study of the films showed he had a complete set of skills.

Foreman didn't have such passes. He was pretty much a crude puncher, good for 2 rounds KO fights, a scary bully who deflated when confronted with a great boxer.

 

Liston issue is mainly he gave up when hurt the greatest prize in all of sport the worlds hwt championship. Historians find it very difficult to rank a hwt with that big an issue alongside those who fought on with great disability.

 

So did Vitali Klitschko ,how should they rank him?
How about Duran quitting to Leonard, has that seriously affected his legacy?

 

Agree that does have an impact on someone`s legacy and it should. In Duran`s case I think he was able to redeem himself to a certain extent but he had a very unique career.

 

Hwt championship has always been considered differently as compared with the lower weight divisions. A higher standard is generally used. I do not rate Liston nor Vitali in my top ten.

 

Liston makes mine.

 

That was not always the case. It depends how many champions there have been and how far from the bottom a guy is placed. Once there has been a lot of champions you can say that there are ATG champs outside the ten. When there was only 10 champions to chose from it would be pretty hard to say that wouldn't it? When there had been 11 champions one guy gets eliminated and so on. There had only been 20 champions by the time George won the title in 74' so not making the ten puts him in the lower half.

So It is difficult to deny Foreman was eliminated from ATG discussion when he did not feature on ATG lists that we can find before 1985.