George Foreman , overrated ?

Hard for me to put Liston along side guys like Marciano for one who carried on when losing, beaten and bloodied.

 

I'm with you, his claim to greatness relies heavily and is massively buffered by the fact he won the title at 45. What stops him from being ranked among the elite of the elite is that he only had the title for 1 of them 21 years

 

Liston had legitimately great wins at contender level. Harris, Foley and Machen. He looked a champion in the making before he won the title. The two wins over Floyd were great too but Sonny was unable to build on them at the time and his reputation suffered over the clay fights. With so few rounds completed over four years as an elite fighter, never recovering from the hit to his reputation as a potentially great fighter, Sonny was another champion like Foreman who went decades without registering on any expert top ten lists. It pretty much took a generation of historians who saw Sonny live to die off before the Sonny Liston story became popular enough to register as an ATG. It certainly was not that way during the 1970s and 80s.

 

Yes, isn't it is very interesting?

Old Foreman certainly redeemed young George when he regained the title. As an old man, beyond his prime, Foreman was able to answer everything he was unable to correct first time around during his bald headed comeback. but it should be measured against all the champions who did as much whilst getting things right first time around.

 

I can only laugh at this, and feel more than a small amount of pity. Little wonder you show zero ability to take things in and learn in the various forum discussions.

 

In regards to this subject I have nothing to learn. The history is the history. If you believe the history is somehow different then post the information you are using to make your claim.

 

If you still have the magazines, it would be great if you could cite some of the instances where George Foreman was mentioned, and how often he's described as an all-time great or one of the great heavyweights or similiar in that period.

Like I said, for me, it's just a perception I got from reading a few books and magazines, that Foreman wasn't regarded in those terms. He was more of a footnote.
But my material may have been more limited, or for whatever reason, I got a distorted perception.

 

I've still got loads but finding time to sift thru them will be a problem. It need not be front line articles where the treasure lay. Rest assured if i come across anything in coming months it will be posted.

 

In your opinion, millions would disagree.

 

Rating world champions was always a pretty big selling point for magazines. It's usually emblazoned on the cover when ever it was featured. A simple google of 1980s covers will point you to to the editions required. I have lost my 80s collection of magazines but the 1960s, and 90s magazines That have survived certainly debated past champions and made a point of advertising it when they did. I'm happy to buy the ones from eBay and post the required quotes on this thread (why not? I have already quoted Peter Wilson, Gilbert Odd, Butler and Henry Cooper on their regard for the retired Foreman, posted ring magazine ATG lists from the period) so if you have pre comeback special articles on Foreman you could save us all the wait and beat me to it. I think it would be very sporting for another poster to come up with something on this besides me.

 

The lists you come up with were almost all lopped together in a google search so lets not make out you moved heaven and earth to get them. You only added 2.

 

I posted 8 top ten ATG lists with dates on them I also went through four books and copied out what Henry cooper, frank butler and Gilbert Odd had to say about Foreman once he retired. If you have articles before Foreman cameback that says he was a top ten ATG rather than the confused young Champion that Cooper, Butler, Odd and Wilson were all mystified about I'm sure we are all eager to read about it.

 

Where did i say i had articles about Foreman being top ten? You seriously need to read what is written as Mac keeps trying to drive home. You are fixated on one thing and cannot see past it.