Really enjoyable recap, thank you. Ruby Goldstein had a bad night allowing 7 knockdowns, a pity he was allowed to referee again. Regarding FP's defenses against "fringe contenders", Tommy Jackson and Roy Harris were leading contenders, London was in the top ten, while Pete R' was a big money event 3 weeks after Patterson had stopped Jackson his leading contender.
Thanks for watching, and fair point. Referring to them as "fringe" was probably a poor choice of word on my part!
@Rumsfeld I fished this thread out of the 2nd page graveyard to congratulate you Rumsfeld...excellent thread about a beloved rivalry of mine. perhaps my favorite trilogy...along with Zale-Graziano and yes,...Benvenuti-Griffith(go figure)... I never tire of Floyd vs Ingo!!!
The first fight should have been stopped, for all intents and purposes, after that second kd. I've never liked how Ingo hit Floyd from behind...hell, FP could have done the same thing to Ingo after the kd preceeding the ko in the rematch, but he famously didn't...no, he turned Ingo around before he threw any more punches. However, i think that first fight was a simple strategic masterpiece for Johansson,...the way he kept that "Hammer of Thor" under wraps the way he did, and monotonously persisted in his tactic of jab, jab, jab...repeat and rinse, until he finally lowered the boom. Again, supremely effective in it's simplicity. Lulling Floyd to sleep,..almost hypnotizing him with the jab...and utilizing some underrated, effective footwork. I was impressed. But I was far more impressed with that rematch...never before of since was that version of Patterson seen...much like FOTC Frazier (maybe they disappeared to the same hiding place). Floyd had a grim, and highly effective purpose that night in 1960...and capped it all off with as devastating a left hook...and knockout...as I've ever seen. This was was Floyd could have been all along, but as he himself said, and I'm paraphrasing,..."I couldn't work myself up to hate anybody like that again"...Floyd also said that he "hated himself" for being so consumed by hatred like that. The third bout was in terms of quality, a lot less tha the previous two, but in being so warm, fuzzy and sloppy, was perhaps the most entertaining of the three. Well, enough of my .02 cents... @jowcol again thank you Rummy!!
Thanks for that! It truly is an awesome fight series, about as dramatic as it gets. I confess that I too largely underrated these fights for a long time, but I shan't be doing that again.
You know, I was debating about whether I should get into Johansson's unusual and fascinating training methods, and him not using Toonder much in training, and the whole aura surrounding his right. I believe I also had read, that at some point in the first fight, Patterson had decided upon himself it was all a myth, before soon discovering otherwise. I agree the first fight was effectively over after that 2nd knockdown. But at the very least, he started fighting his way back a little after the 4th knockdown - but that FIFTH knockdown is the point where I think it was probably past due to step in and wave it off. That shot was as vicious as the collection of shots that led to the first 2 knockdowns. And that first fight was a masterclass from Ingo. He would never again have the same prolonged success with his jab against Patterson as he did in those 2+ rounds of their first fight. What I loved about the rematch is the way Patterson just came out and basically said screw it! If I'm going to go down again, it won't be for lack effort, and he really came out with a totally different approach and determination.
I guess you probably know that I'm a huge Floyd Patterson fan....both as a fighter and as a man. He transcended the sport as far as I've ever been concerned by being a truly classy, humble, nice...decent guy who displayed sportsmanship, and intelligence...along with that introspective quality that he had...far more than Ali, Jones, Hopkins, even Leonard, etc., and certainly more than that more celebrated "Floyd" that we all know about...that's just my opinion of course, but I think I know what I'm talking about...it's what I value a highly as anything else in this sport of boxing. He used to get horribly underrated as a fighter, but much can be explained by the fact that he was so much smaller than most of the greats that beat him. My buddy @jowcol feels the same way. But getting back to the 3 fights, I think Ingo really pulled one over on him and everyone else in the world of boxing in that first fight of theirs...but as you said, he never again was able to repeat that feat....and certainly never again came into the ring as in shape with that mystique surrounding that "Hammer of Thor" right hand of his. His own propaganda regarding that right was refreshingly unique as well....alluding to the press that the punch "had a mind of it's own" (source: Time magazine 1959)...but the luster was all gone via that wonderful rematch performance of Floyd's (still the first and most worthy fighter to go by that first name alone). Yes Floyd Patterson was flawed, but like I said, he transcended those flaws by being the quality guy that he was, and by performing with renewed conviction and confidence in those post-1965 years. You did a superlative job with this thread, and I enjoyed it immensely...now...i would only hope that either you or someone else as gifted a writer...I can think of you and certain guy named Anubis would come up with a thread on the Benvenuti-Griffith trilogy...or even a Nino Benvenuti thread which details his role as the glamour guy of the sport who rescued boxing from the dumps that Ali's exile put it in. Thanks again Rummy!!
This is correct Floyd was a good champion. I think he fought five times against the #1 contender. Moore, Jackson, ingo x3 and also Liston. It's not true he ducked anybody. The rematch clause and the tax on outdoor fights prevented all the champions fighting more often during that period. Machen and Foley drew then ingo eclipsed the pair of them when he knocked out machen. Guys like Williams never got a rating until Sonny was the champ.
Yes indeed, the tax system was horrendous, while there was no escaping rematch clauses. Harris was highly rated. No 3 by the N.B.A and 1 and 5 by Boxing Illustrated and The Ring respectively. As you say Ingo beat Machen while Folley lost to Cooper as well as his dull draw with Eddie. People just have to check the timeline. Williams was not a factor during this time.
