What if Dundee let Ali quit?

Don't forget the Henry Cooper knockdown or the Manila possible "retirement" also.

 

I thought he cut the glove to buy Clay more time to recover? I didn't know about the smelling salts.

 

the stool he'd just easily walked back to. stop talking shyte dozi. He was hurt obviously but not out of it at all.

 

I can say he was unhurt enough to get straight up and clearly walk without any difficulty to his stool.

Thats how clearly I can say it, by what I see.

And thats how you can say it so unclearly, by choosing not to see that.

 

Well going off the other 2 knockdowns in Ali's career plus the other times in fights he was hurt, one thing is known about Ali is that he had exceptional recovery powers,the chances of him recovering in my eyes were a lot better than 50/50.
As for Manila Dundee rubbished the myth that Ali was going to quit, he said there was never any quit in his guy.

 

Well, first off, Angelo Dundee would've been gone. As it was, during the fight, when Ali said he couldn't see, Dundee spoke about Nation of Islam members at ringside acting like Dundee had put the stuff in Ali's eyes. During the round Ali was blind, one Nation member told Ferdie Pacheco that they were going to deal with Dundee if Ali lost. Being Italian, they didn't trust him and thought he had mob ties. (Which he and his brother, Chris, did.)

So Dundee would've been out. Or he may have been beaten half to death in the locker room after the fight.

Second, Ali would've announced he was joining the Nation of Islam, which would've effectively ended his career as a contender. It was considered a dangerous, racist organization (which it was) at that time and promoters wouldn't have had much interest in getting involved with him.

Ali would also have NOT BEEN a high-profile member of the organization, like he quickly became in real life.

Most Nation members had to take the last name X ... but Ali was given special treatment (by being given a last name) and he was given special treatment by being given the name "Ali" - which literally meant Most High.

Had Ali quit in his title fight, and had no status in the professional sports world, he just would've been another low-level member of the organization. Muhammad X.

Also, considering the guys he was hanging out with in the organization, and the violence surrounding the split between Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad in 1965, (Malcolm X was murdered, Ali's own bodyguard was violently beaten just before Malcolm's murder because he supported X, and Muhammad Ali's own home was set on fire), Ali may have gone with Malcolm X in the split (had he just been another member of the org and not been given special status because he was heavyweight champ) and Ali may not have survived the 1960s (or even 1965).

In boxing, if Ali had quit before the fifth round, some boxing people would've thought Liston cheated. Others would've thought Ali quit because he had no heart as soon as Liston started landing bombs on him.

People didn't think Ali had a chance to begin with. Had he put together a couple good rounds and then quit, that would've been it for him regardless. Quitting in the corner wasn't seen as acceptable, as Liston found out.

And Liston probably would've gone on to defend against the likes of Ernie Terrell, George Chuvalo, Eddie Machen may have received a rematch (since he lasted 12 with Liston before Sonny won the title). Buster Mathis and Jerry Quarry may have gotten shots.

Frazier probably beats Liston around 1968. Or maybe 1969.

And, after being viewed as one of the best heavyweights who ever lived, instead of the infamous rep he had after Lewiston, Liston probably gets more professional opportunities after retiring and doesn't die in Vegas around New Year's 1971.

To summarize, if Ali quit in 1964, Dundee is badly beaten after the 1964 fight and leaves Ali, Ali probably dies in the 1960s during the internal war within the Nation, Liston lives and becomes a celebrated all-time great.

 

it wasnt a stoppage. Why are now classing it as a stoppage? It was anything but - it was a completely failed attempt at stoppage. It is the OPPOSITE of what you claim.

there is no way you can see pinballs on that video. You've invented it.

Smelling salts were illegal under british rules. YOu work it out. Think for once in your life, this being the first time a Dundee-supported Ali had a british fight.

 

Exactly how it happened !

Who knows though. One more of them left hooks would've been good night. Alis actions shows he was more hurt than anytime in his whole career. He didn't know what he was doing Ali was out of it and not in control, like he was arguing with himself....Never seen it before or since when he was hurt/dropped....Anyone with a good left hook could seriously get alis attention

 

Smelling salts were a standard part of an American cornerman's kit. It's doubtful that Dundee even knew that Britain had a blanket ban on "stimulants other than water" - several years later Jose Napoles' manager used them in a fight in London and was shocked when they were taken away from him by the authorities.