Does a non exile ali defeat frazier?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Apr 3, 2017.


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  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    So ali never loses his licence to fight, he keeps on fighting. He remains unfeafeated through out the rest of the sixty s, which is probably true , then Joe frazier s looming. It's a big fight with the undefeated ali vs the number one contender, smoking Joe frazier!!

    What's different this time is ali s been active, he's been making defences and probably got at least another 8 wins under his belt.
    So who takes this one?

    Does a smoking hot frazier hungry for ali take him any way?
    Or does a active, non rusty muhammad beat frazier?
    And if frazier lost how does he figure in the division afterwards? Would it be Ali the champion then facing a young contender called George foreman?
    So in a nut shell, does the exile effect the actual fotc and if so, does that mean ali would otherwise have beaten Joe?
     
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    #1
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  2. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think this would still be an extremely tough assignment for Ali.
    Frazier was prime, the best version we ever saw.
    If Ali had fought another 7 or 8 defences and stayed active, presumably without indulging in many if any wars we can possibly assume by that time he would have been also absolute prime with the speed and reflexes still 100% intact.
    On that basis I would take Ali to edge out Frazier, I think he would have spent more time on the move and less time on the ropes.
    I would have no issue though with anyone who took Frazier here.
     
    Cecil, Apr 3, 2017
    Cecil, Apr 3, 2017
    #2
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Agreed. Any young frazier is going to be coming at his opponent like a bull on fire. And ali is going to be under pressure that he's never faced before.
     
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    #3
  4. juppity

    juppity Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The long layoff did effect Ali as he was after the comeback more easily hit and relied
    less on reflexes and more on savvy and guile in the ring. Still Joe style would
    always give Ali difficulty and i still see Joe winning no matter what Ali he fought.
     
    juppity, Apr 3, 2017
    juppity, Apr 3, 2017
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  5. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    That frazier would have been a beast against Ali jup.
     
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
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  6. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I personally think so. 3 yrs is a long time not to be able to ply your trade. And in the fight game, 3 yrs is an eternity. It took Frazier a herculean effort to defeat Ali in the F.O.T.C . I don't see him doing it to the Ali of 67-68. His foot speed was on a whole different level.
     
    Flash24, Apr 3, 2017
    Flash24, Apr 3, 2017
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  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    There are no guarantees either way. But its always been hard for me to imagine that a version of Ali who wasn't coming off a period of only fighting twice in four years couldn't do better.
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 3, 2017
    mr. magoo, Apr 3, 2017
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'd pick Frazier knowing what I know but you'd hardly be surprised to be proved wrong either way.
     
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2017
    McGrain, Apr 3, 2017
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  9. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Ali went the distance after a lay off against a prime pumped up frazier. Fair enough he was down in the last round but thinking he could do that with a lay off, well stands to reason a non exile ali should do better. But this is frazier so it's swings and round abouts. Ali would still have to be at his best against this Joe.
     
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
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  10. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Its still a hard pick because what we no about both men. How good they both were against each other.
     
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    #10
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Ali for me, in an epic.He would be a bit better, Frazier couldn't have been better.
     
    JohnThomas1, Apr 3, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Apr 3, 2017
    #11
  12. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A non rusty Ali decisions Frazier. Still a very tough fight for him,though. Even a prime 1966/67 Muhammad would find Joe the toughest man he ever fought. Same with Ken Norton in similar scenario.
     
    Stevie G, Apr 3, 2017
    Stevie G, Apr 3, 2017
    #12
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  13. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Indeed. when you take into account what you know, what I know, what we all know, well that's a lot of knowing.
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 3, 2017
    mr. magoo, Apr 3, 2017
    #13
  14. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    ,
    Yes. But do we really know mr M.?? That is the question.
     
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    Fergy, Apr 3, 2017
    #14
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Well based on what I know.. I know that you know that you know that I know that knowing what we both know is the crux of the whole issue.
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 3, 2017
    mr. magoo, Apr 3, 2017
    #15
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