Does a non exile ali defeat frazier?

Knowing what specifically McGrain?

 

Ali was tougher In his return before that he had great hand and foot speed but that was it you cant fight joe frazier when you have a glass chin and are always susceptible to a hook

 

Since when did Ali have a 'glass chin' ?

 

I think frazier's style, relentless pressure and stamina was always going to be difficult for ali. Ali was very talented but im not sure that even at his best, it would have been enough to avoid frazier for 15 rounds. IMHO ali never had enough power to really earn respect from frazier, who was very very determined. A younger ali culd have made frazier look stupid for several rounds but he would have kept coming and eventually it would always be ali against the ropes taking punishment from frazier. Only question would be if ali had built up enough of a lead on the scorecards to win a decision.

 

FOTC was probably the best Frazier you could get. And that Ali was definitely not.

And the fight was very close.

What Ali lost most in those three years was his movement and speed.

Smokin' Joe was nightmare pressure fighter for any opponent, but I think the Ali of 67 would have been too elusive and would have been too accurate with his counters.

It's not a certain that Ali would prevail. Anything can happen in HW boxing. But boxers' chins don't usually improve with age, they tend to go the other way.

Ali's chin was probably better in his first go round, if anything.

And did Frazier have one punch KO power against an Ali chin ?

The punch that dropped in FOTC was probably Frazier's very best leaping hook, and Ali was up at three... and with 2:36 left in the round, and Joe throwing everything but the kitchen sink for the rest of the round, the KO was never close.

So I would see Ali being elusive and punishing Joe, perhaps getting decked early or mid rounds (a la Henry Cooper fight) but ultimately winning by a good margin.

 

Good assessment and I concur.

 

Ali hurt Frazier in all 3 of the fights they fought.

 

And? I said "Ali didnt have enough power to really earn respect from frazier who was very determined".
Obviously however badly he hurt frazier wasnt enough to keep him off. Frazier kept coming.

 

Yes. Ali wins. Could've happened as soon as 1967. Frazier was the number-two WBA contender when Ali was stripped.

 

probably, but you would have to assume best frazier was against ali.

 

Frazier was incredibly motivated...but Ali without having to go through the long layoff is tough to pick against...Ali UD in the greatest fight of all time...

 

Until he was pulled out, before being stopped.