Anthony Joshua vs Muhammad Ali who wins this super fight?

Or, people just happen to believe he's that good of a boxer because of the little fact that he fought and beat every top level fighter and then some from all different styles and sizes in the era where the division was stacked the most.

 

I can accept that some favour Ali over Joshua. I just get the impression that no matter who comes along and no matter how great they look and no matter how much they achieve, Ali will always be invincible.

 

I don't agree. An 18 fight novice who's yet to beat a top10 contender doesn't get 1/3 of the votes against someone who's seen invincible.

For example, prime Roy Jones is seen as invincible at 160-168(including by me) and guys like Ward and GGG who are far more accomplished than Joshua barely get %20 of the votes against him in fantasy match ups.

 

@theanatolian - Maybe not everyone who picks Ali here fits my description but plenty on this forum pick Ali over everybody in history including Lewis, Klitschkos, Bowe etc. (I am assuming this isn't the case for you?)
I accept AJ hasn't been properly tested yet but on eye test alone (think Lomachenko when he turned pro) I find it incredible that guys who have seen far more fights than I favour Ali when to me it seems so obvious he would be in trouble.
If Joshua beats Wlad will that sway your opinion to the point you would pick him over Ali? (since then he will have beat a top10 guy)

Roy deserves to be seen as invincible because that is what he looked like in his prime. I can't even imagine what GGG beating him would look like.

 

I for one don't favour Ali over everyone in history. I think some of the large SHW ATGs would have beaten Ali at least some of the time.

The bottom line is that it's way too early to talk about AJ vs Klitschko when Joshua's best wins are Whyte and Breazeale. Joshua could well become an ATG, and beating Klitschko would be a big step in that direction; and if Joshua goes on to dominate the HW division there would likely be a very good argument for Joshua beating Ali.

But if I am forced to make a pick before Joshua has really accomplished anything, I have to go with Ali.

 

The only sensible and logical argument in my view. Let Joshua have his career and let's see what we think of him when he loses - and he will; HWs hit too hard for that not to happen at least once or twice in a 40-fight career. Calling him an ATG as of right now and being certain he'd beat Ali, is pure madness...

 

For a diehard HW fan, It's hard to pick against Ali because he adjusted to every style that he faced, and he faced many. That's not an easy combination to pick against: Fastest HW ever with impeccable ring IQ. But If I were to make a list of guys who had the best chance against Ali, 5'10 Tyson would be on top of it, because Ali was suspicious to bodyshots and lead left hooks. Followed by Lennox Lewis and Larry Holmes.

Going by the eyetest, I haven't seen anything from AJ to pick him over Ali. Would my opinion change if he beats Wlad? I don't know. Depends on how he does it. If he shows good upperbody movement, ability to parry his opponents jab, make use of a better left hook, consistently work to the body, cut off the ring, then maybe.

 

This is an excellent post.

 

Who's so enamoured? Ali's my favourite all time fighter, we've all got one, but first and four most i'm a boxing fan.
I've got no problem with people saying Louis, Lewis, Tyson, Klitschko, Holmes and some others beat Ali, that's all legitimate opinion they're all great fighters, but some on here have Joshua, who I like as the second coming.
I've seen him described on here, as a mixture of a pressure fighter of Joe Frazier ilk with greater speed of hand and foot than Ali, when none of that is clearly the case.
I'm a Brit and hope Joshua achieves all that we hope for, but until I see him tested over the stretch, I'm not going to put him in the stratosphere just yet.

 

Well, unless your name is Frazier or Norton ... Foreman should have finished him too imho.

That said Ali is very, very good and people pick him for a reason. I personally think AJ is far too green and stiff to even think of picking over a prime Ali, unless we're talking about a puncher's chance. Joshua may go on to have an incredible career - in that case such a pick might be justified. But not yet.

 

Imagine we were back in time, before Liston/Clay 1, Would you be saying the same of Clay's chances against Dempsey?

I am not claiming Joshua is greater than Ali or ever will be. I am not claiming he is an 'ATG'. I am not even a particular fan of Joshua's so please don't dismiss me as a crazed fan, if anything I just have bad judgement when it comes to hypothetical match ups. I can't help that when I picture the two of them in the ring together I see Ali getting slaughtered and despite all your (and others) very reasonable posts with irrefutable truths I can't give Ali an edge.

 

I won't lie, I did picture your avatar when I wrote that, Who do you think beats Ali Cecil?

 

I do, and clearly. Lewis is truly the only hw I rate close to Aj level..Aj, imho is the h2h goat and will retire the hw goat. Aj is 2/3 decades before his time

 

For your first paragraph, I can't judge that situation fairly right now. But I'd probably favour Dempsey minly because of the flaws Ali showed against Cooper.

I always felt that size is an overrated attribute in boxing, and still do. And aside from good power against limited opposition and above average hand speed, that's all we've seen from Joshua. It takes far more than being big and looking like a monster against a bunch of no hopers and prospects to beat Ali. George Foreman looked like a monster against Joe Fraizer and Ken Norton, see how that turned out.

Like I said plety times in this thread, I'd have no problem with it if someone picked Joshua over Ali because of hi size, power and athleticism. But It's not enough for me yet.

 

Well nobody can ever accuse you of being inconsistent. I think where you and I differ is that eye test trumps everything for me and resume is paramount to you, fair?