Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

Curtis Stevens said that Golovkins punches didn't hurt him. Yet in the ring, after Gennady hit him, he looked like he saw Jesus.

Basically fighters often downplay the difficulty of their feat to keep themselves focused. Or perhaps they handled the situation better than they expected.
How do you feel about Carnera lasting 6 rounds? It's not a big deal, but for a fraud cheat who can't box, it sure needs some explaining.

 

Interesting thread.
I still feel Bowe is the better all around fighter.

I do want to commend Reznick here though, he took a widely unpopular stance and with the use of film laid out a devil's advocate arguement and challenged nearly 70 years of what many experts believe is canon that Primo was a big stiff.
In the clips you provide, and let me be clear snippets can be misleading, Primo looks much better than I ever gave him credit for.

 

You certainly do, you whine about it every 3 months hoping to lure in some support but it never appears

 

I'll take a wild guess and assume everyone knew Carnera was strong!

 

Reznick, post: 18521903, member: 54206"]Curtis Stevens said that Golovkins punches didn't hurt him. Yet in the ring, after Gennady hit him, he looked like he saw Jesus.

Basically fighters often downplay the difficulty of their feat to keep themselves focused. Or perhaps they handled the situation better than they expected.
How do you feel about Carnera lasting 6 rounds? It's not a big deal, but for a fraud cheat who can't box, it sure needs some explaining.[/QUOTE]
Saying punches didn't hurt you is rather different to stating unequivocally," he had nothing!"
How do I feel about the 88 fight Carnera going into the 6th rd with the 21 years old Louis who had been a pro for one year ? About the same as when 7-5-0 Art Sykes went 8rds with him!
Louis had no difficulty with Carnera so that's another of your theories/excuses exploded.

"Louis floored Carnera three times. United Press reported: "Louis' two dynamite-laden fists obliterated Primo Carnera. . . . Louis carried the battle to Carnera in every round, winning all but the fourth by wide margins."

Using The Max Baer fight in which Max quit for comparison is ludicrous and you know it or you should!

How many rounds do you think Carnera and Sykes would go with the Brown Bomber who kod Schmeling in1 round?

"I got in some hard punches in round one.He just moved around and flicked out a jab.The first thing that shocked Carnera and the audience was that instead of him handling me like a baby ,I handled him.
They were looking at his size not his talent.I moved him around easily."
"The fight moved along smoothly for me.I remember in the 5th round we clinched and I picked him off his feet.That's when he spoke to me ,the only time in the fight.He said," Oh,oh,oh,." His eyes bulgedout in surprise.Then he said I should be doing this to you". I was just as surprised as he was at the ease with which I moved him around.
Carnera had nothing.He couldn't punch,but he had a pretty decent jab.He pushed with his right and he was awkward.Mostly he tried to scare me with his weight".
"He never hurt me once."

Would you like to fight Louis again? " Oh Jesu God no!"
I'll take Joe Louis' since opinion of Carnera against that of a few revisionists.
BTW Ever remember Louis being negative about any other fighter or making excuses ?

N.B. I've never called Carnera a cheat ,or a fraud, said he could not box, or that he lacked courage.

You keep attempting to put words in my mouth, please stop ,I find I can speak very well for myself!

 

Larry Gains rated Carnera. I have his book. I also have Schmelings book, the English translation and he rated Carnera too.

Here's the quote from the Gains book page 107-


"But against Carnera you did hsve to be careful. For such a big man, he was deceptively fast. He didn't really punch his weight, but he was a very damaging puncher just the same"

Page 108

"He was a good man and one whom the game treated very badly. I have watched the film of his fight with Max Baer and heard men laugh, as they saw the big Italian hit the canvas over and oVer again. They should have cheered instead. Baer was a terrific puncher and only a very brave man could have taken that sort of punishment and kept coming back the way Carnera did that night.

He of course came too late to the game...too late to learn the trade. It's true he was not a great champion. But remember he was the heavyweight champion of all the world. No one can take that away from him."

 

"He was a very damaging puncher."

Welp...

Nice find by the way Chok.

 

Yeah...it's Louis.
Of course he handled him.

This was a fairly new scenario in boxiana. A much smaller punching phenom showing that technique can overcome size. Louis had a story to tell in this regard, a point to make.

Do you think Louis could get away with talking about American white opponents like that?
Everyone was taking a poke at Da Preem. He was fair game.

Yet, somehow Louis rated Carnera as one of his best wins. Why?

 

Carnera was a pretty mobile boxer for his size ,with an annoying jab, he did not have real power, but because of his size advantage,he could bludgeon the lower talented smaller men into submission if he trapped them in corner's.That's my take on him.

 

Giants being overwhelmed was nothing new at all. Dempsey v Willard? Dempsey v Fulton.
You are so off with your excuses its becoming laughable.
Louis made those comments in his autobiography after he had retired!
Please produce ANY QUOTE from Louis in which he rates Carnera as one of his best wins!
He has said in print Carnera had nothing! How could he qualify as a best win?
You dismiss Louis' comment because they don't fit the scenario you are trying to promote here.Its that simple! You have a closed mind on this subject.

Janitor tried something similar when I produced Louis' comments on Carnera, he replied,"if you are going to make a big deal about the negative comments Louis made about Carnera,it is only fair that you post the positive comments he made about him too".I challenged him to produce those positive comments and I'm still waiting for them! Just as I'm now waiting for yours!

 

That's ONE fight
It happened before Louis era
And it wasn't easily accessible

lol

 

I'm not dismissing Louis at all. I just understand where he's coming from.
Primo didn't break him in two. Joe pummeled him to pieces, despite being smaller.

 

Source and provenance for this, and who is it referring to?

 

It came from Larry Gaines.
Look at Choks last post.

 

So you endorse the Gordwin, Boone and Sorrell debacles that Foreman had in 1972 as #1 contender?

Come on mr M, Those guys were 3-25, 1-14 and 4-15! They had practically not won fights since the 1950s and were each multiple knockout victims at a much lower level, from another time. Literally dug up for Foreman. Gordwin had been counted out 15 times from 16 total fights!!!

Nobody can mention Fixed fights or poor opponents for contenders without including This scandal.

You also dismiss Carnera whilst excusing (a more popular champion) Sonny Liston over the exact same award that Fleicher omitted both of them.

We have quotes from world champions rating Carnera as being a real champion, not a fraud yet you still cling to the Hollywood side of things regarding the legitimacy of Carnera as a fraud boxer. This in an era where Carnera sized athletes have taken over heavyweight boxing.