Why do people say "Lineal" when they mean "Ring"

Ok..That's fair. But you are going on what he might do, I am going by what he has done. So how many fights does he have at different weight classes before he returns to MW? What if Floyd comes back and wants a huge payday against Canelo at 154? What if Jr turns into a legit blood and guts trilogy at slightly higher catchweight around SMW. I think 2 fights in a row, one being a title fight, more than removes him from the division.

 

It happened in 2013, with Floyd and Canelo. Clear #1 vs #2 of a Division, both Undefeated, both were Jr Middleweight Title Holders. The only problem was Floyd was too scared to fight Canelo at the Full Limit. That fight needed to be at the Full Limit for a Fight of that Magnitude, and one that was establishing a New Lineage at 154 for the First Time in 8 years. Having that at 152 set a bad precedent that derailed both 154 and 160 lb divisions. Basically that affected everything that happened since then. There hasn't been a Lineal Title Fight at 154 since that fight, and the rest is history.

 

Wrong... Canelo vs. Trout, the clear #1 vs. #2 at Junior Middleweight, in April of 2013, established a new lineal champion. Canelo won that bout. He attempted to defend the lineal title against Floyd and failed to.

I don't like catchweights, but they are what they are.

 

That was for the Floydweight World Championship. Floydweight is variable, but with one constant: it's always 2lb lighter than an opponent can safely drain down to.

 

I have been watching boxing for 30 years. To me and what I have read and heard others say, to lose lineal you have to retire, get best, or leave the weight class. Canelo has chosen not to fight at MW for 2 fights in a row. He left the division by choice. He could have fought literally ANY top 10 MW and did the same numbers as Smith.

 

What he might do depends on what happens in the Chavez fight. He could be biting off more than he can chew with Chavez. If Canelo dominantes, I don't think there's any doubt he'll fight Triple G next. However, if Chavez comes to fight and it's a war, then who knows. Chavez is the only thing standing between a Canelo vs Triple G Super Fight. He's got to make the fight good enough to make boxing fans want to see Canelo Chavez 2 rather than Canelo vs Triple G.

If Floyd comes back and wants a huge payday at 154, then I think Canelo would want that fight even more than the Triple G fight. But I doubt that's going to happen, Floyd would have to swoop in right after the Chavez fight. As Lineal Champion, there's no amount of fights outside of a division that causes him to lose his Lineal status. However, I don't think boxing in general or this forum can go another year without seeing Canelo vs Triple G lol. I'm definetly conflicted on what I want to see next weekend. On the one hand, I like Chavez and want to see a great fight but on the other hand, if it's a great fight I don't know how they can sell a rematch instead of Triple G for September. The only thing that could possibly derail that is Floyd coming out after the Chavez fight and saying he wants to rematch Canelo at 154 for his WBO instead of fighting Conor which I don't see happening. So basically, I'm expecting Canelo vs Triple G to happen in September. But this is boxing, we can't overlook Chavez. If Chavez comes to fight, he could derail all of this. I think also Triple G fans are conflicted, because as much as they hate Canelo, they probably want him to win just so the Triple G fight happens before Triple G gets old.

 

As a card carrying GGGoon, I can say quite unambiguously that Chavez beating the **** out of Canelo and then facing Golovkin is a scenario I am perfectly happy with

 

I think thats where most people would disagree with you..If a guy leaves the division then he is no longer lineal.

 

Canelo vs Trout was for the vacant Ring Championship, not for the Lineal Championship. The Lineal Title was vacant from Winky's retirement up until Floyd vs Canelo.

Also, I don't see how you can argue Canelo vs Trout was #1 vs #2 at Jr Middlewieght, wouldn't Floyd have been seen as the Clear #1 of that division at that time after beating Cotto at 154?

 

Yeah but if Chavez beats the **** out of Canelo, then that would probably lead to an immediate rematch. I don't think you'd be perfectly happy with that, because you're already worried about Canelo vs Triple G not happening until Triple G gets old.

 

That's what Canelo has been aiming for, so whether Chavez wins or loses, nobody is forcing Saul to face GGG. He could beat Chavez and then go on to fight the winner of Saunders / Khurtsidze rather than Golovkin, which in fact is what I anticipate will happen. Oscar has (imho) been running rings around Fluffler and I will be very surprised if GGG / Canelo happens this year. I think if he beats Chavez he fights Saunders/AK, and then Chavez again.

I'm hoping for a Chavez win.

 

I seriously doubt he would fight the winner of Saunders / Khurtsidze rather than fighting Golovkin. If that happens, I'll be completely shocked. I don't see how Canelo would be able to do that from a PR standpoint. The only fights I could see in September rather than Canelo vs Triple G are Canelo vs Floyd at 154 or a Chavez rematch. And frankly, I think both of those options are very unlikely. I think Canelo vs Triple G has to happen, even if Canelo vs Chavez is close. I just don't see how boxing can afford to see Canelo vs Triple G delayed any further. Canelo vs Chavez would have to be fight of the year, and even then I still don't think they'd be able to sell a rematch over the Triple G fight.

 

Seems that you trust Canelo / Oscar more than I do.

I sincerely hope that you are right and that I am wrong.

 

I am not going to be surprised or shocked if the GGG fight doesn't happen after the Jr fight regardless of the outcome.

Another possibility that hasn't been mentioned, what if Canelo looks/feels the best he has ever felt coming out of camp and performs flawless against Jr. Does he now decide on a "new" Caneloweight of 165 and now tries to force GGG to come up to him? Or he gets other 168ers to come down to 165. If that happens, he may never go back to MW. But in your mind he is still lineal? That's ridicules.

By any measure he has left the weight class. He is no longer the lineal MW champ.

 

It's preposterous to think that he would force Triple G to move up to SMW. You know that’s never going to happen. Canelo vs Triple G needs to be at Middleweight. He's only fighting in SMW to accommodate Chavez due to Chavez's inability to make 160.

Whether you like it or not, Canelo is in fact the Lineal and Ring MW Champ. I know you think he should have stayed in the division, but fighting Smith at 154 was important to him and the Chavez fight is huge. These are big fights, and they don't in any way change his status at Middleweight.