[GIF] Carnera KO Sharkey (Slow Mo)

You seem to be basing a 102 fight career on three or four fights you've seen.

Lucien Rodriquez wasn't known for having much of a chin. He was knocked out three times by Alfredo Evangelista. Yet, when Larry Holmes defended against Rodriquez, Lucien went the distance with Larry in a bout that was supposed to showcase Holmes before his family and friends.

Don't you find that "curious?"

Foreman destroyed Frazier and Norton, both inside two rounds, guys who'd both beaten Ali and people Ali could never drop, no matter how many times Ali hit them, yet Ali knocked out George Foreman.

Does that mean Foreman took a dive?

Please.

Tommy Loughran is a hall of famer. He's considered one of the best boxers of his era. And Primo Carnera outboxed him over 15 rounds. Out of the 15 rounds, two judges gave Loughran ONE round of the 15. The third judge gave Loughran THREE rounds out of 15.

Jack Sharkey is a hall of famer. He was considered one of the best boxer/punchers of his era. Carnera knocked him out to win the title.

Carnera was a short-timer as heavyweight champ. He wasn't the best ever. But he wasn't the worst (as he's often painted to be), ever, either. Not by far.

I'd take Carnera over some champs before he won the title and over some who held the title after him.

Hell, I am a huge fan of Floyd Patterson. I think Patterson could fight Carnera 10 times and would be lucky to win a couple times, if at all. I'd take Carnera over Hasim Rahman. I'd take Carnera over Oleg Maskaev. I'd take Carnera over Michael Moorer. And plenty more.

Carnera could take a helluva shot and kept getting up. He had great endurance. He could still move and throw a lot of punches in the 15th round, when a lot of guys who came after him either couldn't fight 15 rounds or were holding on trying to run out the clock by the time it came around. And he had very good power. For someone with his size and build, you might expect him to punch like a monster. He didn't. (Most heavyweights who look like monsters don't.) But he could still pop.

The guys who fought Carnera didn't think he was a joke. He wasn't an "easy out."

 

You can get personal all you want, I give you permission, I am a big boy. I believe it's relevant that like here on this thread that you cant see somebody else's argument or visual evidence. Is this personal, that I am saying "save your breath he wont see it"? Why? I posted on another thread, direct quotes from a fighter about another fighter and you didnt factor it in. Why keep bringing up the fights that were fixed, when Carnera did fight and had decent wins post-fixed fights. We all know some bad people controlled his career at first, not that I am condoning his early "fights", but he stood up. Primo's career was not just about his "fixed fights".

 

Where have I suggested he was either," a joke," or " an easy out?"

 

If you were right, the following would not be on the list.

Ike Wiiliams 39%
Sandy Saddler 64%
Jimmy Wilde 66%
Cleveland Williams 63%
Ray Robinson 54%
Freddie Steele 41%
Jack Dempsey 69%
Sandy Saddler 64%
Sam Langford 41%
Joe Choynski 45%
Archie Moore 60%
Rocky Graziano 63%
Rodrigo Valdes 59%
Bennie Briscoe 55%
Jersey Joe Walcott 45%
Max Schmeling 54%
Charley Burley 51%
Tiger Jack Fox 51%
And about 30 more
But they are! And You're not!

 

This looks to me now as more of an inside right hook than an uppercut.

 

WTF does any of this mean, now it's ko %, fyi each one of these guys that you mentioned were all thought of as punchers. Primo was not a big puncher per say, Ko % is meaningless, as you can see known crunchers as Langford, Choynski, Freddie Steele and other known punchers are under 50%, while Ali had a 61%, does that mean that Ali was a bigger puncher, no it does not.

 

And on what list are guys like Cleveland Williams, Jersey Joe Walcott, Joe Choynski, Sam Langford and Max Schmeling considered the biggest punchers in heavyweight history?

Let me guess, some crappy Ring Magazine list from years ago?

Where is Vitali Klitschko on that list? How about Wlad Klitschko? Lennox Lewis? Deontay Wilder? Anthony Joshua? Frank Bruno? Tommy Morrison? Hell, even Riddick Bowe? Forget heavyweights. Where is Gennady Golovkin rated? Sergei Kovalev?

Speaking of middling KO percentages, where is Manny Pacquiao ... if Ike Williams is on there? I hope they have Manny higher, or it's a total cluster.

I'm sure whatever list you're viewing sucks.

 

Yes, it exists. Sharkey was hit by a hard punch. This was no fix, and Sharkey who lived to 90 years of age or beyond swore the fight was on the level.

While I have little doubt Carrera was in a fixed match, my guess is he didn't know about it. Boxing had lots of problems with fixes in the 1930's. No less than 7 DQ losses via fouls happened in major fights in the 1930's, most of which via low blow.

I recommend seeing Carrera vs George Godfrey. Its a filmed battle of two top super heavyweights. Godfrey was perhaps the dirtiest filmed fighter of all time. A low blow king, in on fixed fights. Some feel that Godfrey with the hand cuffs off was something special. Anyway, he gets the better of Carrera in four mostly competitive rounds than goes low in the 5th to get DQ'd.

Carrera himself was never embraced by USA fans. They didn't like the fact that he was foreign, and Nat Fleisher at the height of his powers and the New York State Athletic Commission toyed around with the idea of Super Dreadnaught division for guys Carrera's size. So you see this we need a new super heavyweight division is nothing new.

 

Yeah I need your permission.

You don't think the fact that Carnera was in fixed fights should be mentioned when discussing him? Yeah that sounds reasonable.

 

Well I am not the one whining about getting personal lol. Mention it all you want, nobody said you should stop, I'll back you up haha. It's also reasonable to discuss his merits, a pro n con type of discussion. Like I said countless times before, what you post and what anybody posts is open to discussion, afterall this is a forum. Please, tell me what's wrong with that. Does this ring a bell? You can dish it out but you cant take it, might be something to think about.

 

Fleischer never contemplated making a Super Heavyweight Division, it was all paper talk after Schaaf's tragic demise ,and before the facts of his death were in the public domain.

 

I believe Carnera deserves to go ahead of every non champion and partial belt holder claimant who could not string two defences together.

Primo beat the best recognised heavyweight to become world champion, he did it by knockout then he twice defended the undisputed title. that takes some doing.

He's ahead of guys who were never a champion like Ron Lyle and a Jimmy a young.

He's ahead of guys who never beat a former champion like big cat Williams

And he's ahead of jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terrell, pinklon Thomas and the entire 1980s lost generation like them.

 

Sorry if I interject something but doesnt "contemplate"/paper talk mean it was at least discussed.

 

What its about is DoubleChin excusing Carnera being left off the list by saying he had only69% ko percentage.

"His KO percentage is 69 percent. That's why he's not mentioned in any hardest puncher ever discussions."

Why does everything have to be explained to you twice?.