Does A Prime Marciano Beat The Joshua Of Today?

If Robinson always was a natural 189 fighter and Rocky was say 219 I think most would favour Robinson in those days to be honest. Especially with the old gloves. Bob Satterfeild and Archie Moore knocked out a lot of 200 pounders out during that era. It was not so unusual. Harry greb gave away weight to win fights. Micky walker too. There was clearly more in place to make this possible back then.

 

While what you wrote is true, there was not much difference in height or reach between Satterfield & Moore's 200 pounders of the time. In some cases, they had the reach advantage and in most cases, they hit harder!

Giving up 15 pounds at 180 pounds is not a big deal, but giving up 70 pounds at 180, combined with 6" in height and 6" in reach vs a similarly skilled opponent is a HUGE deal.

 

Age has little to do with it. What they put on the table is where it's at and wlad obviously put a lot on the table last weekend. Ridiculous post.

 

On one side:

Marciano was slow patient stationary fighter that had to be at his opponents chest bc he didn't have good skills. What do these guys think if Marciano took that approach with Joshua and tried breaking him down, grinding him down on the inside?????????

Is he going to use his massive 185 pound frame to out match him? If Joshua didnt even train a full year he still would win ...

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For me, the bottom line is that Joshua is more than strong and powerful enough to give Marciano problems by throwing hard shots into and around his guard, while taking an occasional step backwards or laterally. If Marciano tried to close the distance against Joshua, he would have to pay a whole lot more for the real estate than he had to pay against the smaller men he fought in his era. Say what you want about Joshua but unlike almost every man Marciano ever stepped into the ring with, he had enough power to keep Marciano honest, and enough size to deliver it from a safe distance.

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I just don't see it. The only scenario where I see Joshua losing is if, stunned by the extraordinary size gap and Marciano's lack of athleticism, he treats Marciano like a complete joke and starts throwing nothing but wild haymakers, or showboating recklessly or something.

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Realistically Marciano would get destroyed he would be giving up nearly 70lbs and over 10" in reach. A jab from Anthony would feel like a cross from most guys Marciano fought. This would look like Foreman vs Frazier might even be worse. The size difference between these two is like Pep vs Louis.

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Power about even? Wow. I couldn't disagree more. 185lb vs 250lb. Both punchers. It's a no contest.
Chin Marciano? Has Marciano ever taken a big shot from a conditioned SHW puncher? His chin is proven mostly against guys weighing in the 190s

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I'd rather get hit by a 180 or 190 pound skilled puncher (against guys his own size) than an ordinary but in shape 230+ pound guy with 6-12 months of training. The difference is DRASTIC. Joshua is considerably better and more dangerous than an ordinary 240 pound big guy with a year of training.
Wouldn't matter against any 185 pound man who comes at him, especially with slow feet and mediocre defense

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There never has and never will be a 180lb world class fighter than can beat another world class fighter that weighs 250lb. It's rose tinted glasses isn't it. Wlad and Joshua would really make easy work of him, wouldn't be fair in the slightest

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Never in a million years could Marciano beat the AJ of today.

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You think it would be easy for a man with a 68" reach to land on Joshua's chin? A short croucher has to come up out of that crouch to land on a tall opponents chin

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But if a 185 or 190 pound man with 67 inch reach with questionable defense, slow feet, a guy who was been dropped by people his own size, comes to Joshua he isn't going to win. That's just a fairytale.

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Picking him to beat a man 60 pounds lighter than him isn't jumping the gun, it's common sense.

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And on the other:

Since Joshua can't box a lick then he has to either match Marciano's punch rate or make Marciano miss which is extremely unlikely. Joshua physically can't move like that.

Marciano won't see major success against Joshua until Joshua starts to tire which WILL happen. Marciano is just too much of a high pressure fighter to not to. If Joshua had better stamina and was a bit faster then I would favor him but he is not sooo...

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The size difference is enormous. It's silly even. but impossible? It's only impossible if 250lb NEVER lost to guys close to Marciano size. Marciano is from that era where it used to happen, he was the best of his own era by quite some margin. Why rule him out?

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That's easier said than done. Punching a target like that leaves the taller guy extremely off balance. Pretty much falls right into the trap of what the crouch was designed to do against taller fighters. Joshua isn't mobile enough to do that over and over again without backing himself into a corner. Then it would be Marciano lighting Joshua up.

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Marciano wouldn't have any success until after Joshua lets his hands go for a couple rounds.

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Again I say it is far easier for a short opponent to fight a taller opponent than the other way around if the taller opponent doesn't have a fast pounding jab which Joshua does not.

Joshua needs room to get his punches off. A LOT of room. Marciano constantly coming in and countering makes that very hard. All it takes is really one solid punch from Marciano to put Joshua down

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Marciano in comparison to most champions pre-1960 had better power, better chin, more heart and more stamina.

Joshua is going to tower over many famous past champions, some of which were not as durable and didn't hit as hard as Rocky did.

So what applies to Marciano here, also applies to Johnson, Dempsey, and Louis doesn't it? Maybe the others have 5-15 pounds on Rocky, that's it!

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I doubt you ever met a puncher who hit as hard as Marciano. Marciano didn't hit hard for a 180 or 190 lbr, he hit hard for someone who even weighed 240 lbs. Marciano had above mediocre defense and it would be even better against a slow 6'6 250 lb shw. It is much easier for Marciano to close the gap and land on Joshua than it would be for Joshua to land on Marciano who would be bobbing down to well below Joshua's waist.

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Put small vintage gloves on Kovalev and he would knockout a prime Tyson Fury.

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I would give Carnera an even chance with Joshua.

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Joshua is not mobile or agile. Joshua has no speed to back up that reach advantage.

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Weight doesn't improve chin. I think yesterday was a clear sign that Joshua is too big.

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Joshua may hurt and or drop Marciano early but is put to sleep by the 7th.



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Since it is the playoffs here in the US, a pic will suffice. This little guy is named Isaiah Thomas. While his head is clearly rather tiny compared to Rock's, the reality is that if these two men were side by side they would appear evenly matched. As robust, strong, and fit the famed wrecking ball appears in pics or in the ring beside his opponents, in reality, he is basically the same size as this little fellow. While he plays a high cardio sport which keeps the player's weight in check during their careers and during the season, he is between 185 and 190 lbs. He is 5'9". His wingspan is a modest 73 or 74 inches. Side by side with Marciano he will appear very much his size equivalent and anyone would find it appropriate if these two men were placed in physical combat against the other because there would be no discernible size advantage.

His teammate, the guy on the far left, is named Jae Crowder. Crowder is 198 cm (6'6") and weighs about 240 (around 17 stone) during the season. His wingspan is 207.5 cm. A glance at his shoulders/build makes it fairly evident this is a fair prototype for Joshua. If he were a boxer he would certainly find 250 lbs a doable weight.

So, replace Isaiah Thomas (on the far right) with Rocky Marciano. Although it seems hard to envision, that is what Rocky's size would look like beside Joshua (aka Crowder).

In sports/athletics, players that are so much smaller (whether guards in basketball or backs (either side of the ball) in football) rely upon incredible quickness to evade and avoid contact and the length, strength, and power of much larger athletes. They do not go "head to head", they don't grind them down, they don't over power them. They may in certain cases surprise their opposition by avoiding notice or coming behind, but they almost never meet force with force. They cannot win that war of attrition. They cannot survive a contest where 185 lbs must run head on into 250 lbs. Maybe once .. maybe

But, in the case at hand .. 188 lbs of striking power/force without foot and hand speed - a fighter that throws rather wide rights and lefts - without any evasive speed or evasional gifts (i.e., elusiveness, great lateral & sagittal movement, ) .. in combat with an athletic (or comparatively athletic at a minimum) 250 lber with close to 8 inches (20 cm) of height superiority combined with something approaching 30 cms (or 12 inches) of reach or length advantage .. well .. is a sitting duck.

Actually, Rocky might land a lot of punches to Joshua's groin. But, he is not reaching his chin.

http://www.csnne.com/sites/csnne/fi...ae-crowder-al-horford-isaiah-thomas-31517.jpg

 

are they? I wouldnt say the LHWs now are necessarily worse than back then Roy jones, Bernard Hopkins were Tremendous. Ward and Kovalev are very very good.
The difference between 250 pound men then and now is obvious on film. If you think that Tall guys havent become better boxers and learned how to use their height and reach better since Primo Carnera then I guess thats it we agree to disagree

 

Since more film has become available I think we have been under rating the older giants for many many years. If people are going to stand up and say Tyson Furry and the Klitschko brothers are where it's at today then they must include Jess Willard and Primo Carnera in that discussion too.

Take Harold Johnson, Archie Moore and Jimmy Bivins, are those guys not good enough to compete with similar counterparts today?

What makes Carnera so different to that sized men today?

 

So why dosnt anyone pick Carnera over Jack Dempsey then? Your not being consistent here. If any 185lb fighter has no chance against giants why is it so many giants got K.T.F.O by them in the past?

And since we are making comparisons here between the eras, if the only reason that makes the 250lb men so good now compared with the 250lb men of the past is something that wasn't available in the past then doesn't that mean something too? It would mean that this unavailable difference is the deciding factor of giants being a success in the future.

 

Yes and if Marciano was a natural 220 pounds and Joshua was a natural 240 pounds maybe those same people would favour Rocky.

 

Come on, that is just silly. Anyone with eyes who has watched Ali against Berbick and Wlad against Joshua can see that Wlad was MUCH better preserved.

 

Easily. Correct.

I'd also say Joshua is much better than Berbick, and had that Ali fought the Joshua who fought Wlad, he's getting stopped before round 11.

 

I just cant see Marciano beating Joshua obviously Marciano ranks higher and is the greater fight but as many posters on this thread have said the difference between 185-190 pounds and 250 is way too large
and I respect choklab and dagowapp for making reasonable arguments siding with marciano but Imo rocky is too small to fight a 6"6 250 pound fighter who has POWER

 

The difference is that there are much more skilled SHWs around today. Back then they relied purely on size without much skill, which wouldnt cut it against an elite 190 pounder. But size+a decent amount of skill kills. Thats why the SHWs rule the diision today, the big guys like Bowe, Lewis, Douglas, Tucker REALLY learned how to box. Since the 80s and 90s the skill level in the HW division dropped off IMO but not enough for a 185 pound man to just bull his way in and beat up Joshu. Is it impossible? i guess not but Its very very unlikely especially with someone limited with just one gear like Marciano. But i can definitely see an elite 210 or 215 pound guy come up from CW and win the title, just not a 185 pound one that plowed forward got dropped got cut got hit against people his own size.

 

Sure Contro but you are forgetting something

Are you saying modern super heavyweights can withstand emptying the clip of an AK47 on them?

 

But this simply isn’t true.

The footage clearly shows that some SHWs of the past did have good technique, and you can knock enough holes in the technique of the modern giants if you are inclined to do so.

 

Ok, I have no further questions.