Wladimir Klitschkos Legacy

Then Muhammad Ali isn't an ATG because he has lost to Leon Spinks and arguably lost at least 2 times against
Ken Norton and Lennox Lewis isn't an ATG because he has lost to Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall and Mike Tyson
isn't an ATG because he has lost to Buster Douglas and so on...

 

He bobbed and weaved from a stand still from the outside. The footage clearly shows this.
He tried to box Wlad from range. He hadn't the skills or foot work to make his way inside and the few times he did Wlad just leaned down on his neck.
You never saw the fight.
I watched it live. You never saw it ever because HBO refused to pick it up.

 

Interesting - and/or strange. I didn't give Ali more credit for beating Frazier. I gave Frazier credit for beating Ali and other solid competition, outside of Ali.

The only reference I made to Ali was him being widely considered the greatest Heavyweight ever (and that is probably so, because he has a host of credits to his name, outside of Frazier - you should know that, surely?). So you seem to have very much misinterpreted my rationale.


You have created a construct, based on Ali/Frazier alone, which is not sustainable, because both Ali and Frazier attained merit, outside of their matches with each other. There is no circular logic when you accept those facts.

Of course, you won't convince me that Wlad deserves a Top-10 rating, when you are clearly relying on abstract, speculative scenarios and spin as a substitute for the facts.

If you could please point me to the marquee wins on Wlad's ledger then perhaps this would add to his case, in addition to his 'longevity', for him being rated as Top-10 ATG Heavyweight. As it stands, there really isn't one.

 

After this fight i have him outside the top 10.

 

Stop smoking the Crack..

 

It aired live on ESPN. It is also available on youtube if anyone chose to watch it. You however don't chose to watch boxing, it's obvious, I called you on this years ago. You just pick up other's observations and restate them.

 

I'm certain Brewster has gone on record stating the Klitschko win was the greatest moment of his career, his greatest performance, and he needed motivation from his dead trainer and GOD, and all that stuff. He certainly hasn't downplayed it as a small feat or stated he felt Golota or Sergei were better as people on this forum do.

 

He was never in your top 10 to begin with. You rate Tommy Morrison higher. Probably because you're a Rocky V fan.

 

Do you really think Valuev lost that? Either way thats not a great argument. Thats like saying T Fury isnt any good because he had a close debatable fight with McDermott

So you say that Valuev wasnt any good but say Wlad should have fought Valuev instead of the fighter who beat him?

I do seem to remember reading something but not sure what it was. Think it was to do with a problem with Chagaevs eye sight? Could be wrong and am not sure if that is correct as Chagaev went on to win a title again.
Still once again, when you consider Chagaev has gone on to have a decent career, its like not rating one of Alis best wins over Frazier as Frazier had bad site in one of his eyes

A broadcaster not showing the fight doesnt mean a thing. Im surprised that as someone on here who I would guess is a fan would use that as an opinion when rating fighters and wins?
Neither Wladimir or Chagaev were based in America or American so there might have been little interest in that fight in America but the fact that the fight was in front of a 61000 sell out crowd shows there was some interest in it.
I could also say that it was for the Ring title as well, that fight

 

I didnt think for one second any of them would downplay the win

 

This is what Brewster had to say about WK

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And i agree. Wlad is an ATG athlete , not an ATG fighter.

 

Kind of. Nobody thought Tyson Fury was very good when he fought McDermot. I didn't become a fan of his till the Rogan fight.
Valeuv faced Donald in his 40th fight . Dermot was Furys 8th fight. Fury went onto to prove his was multiple levels better than that version . Valeuv just went on being Valeuv - a guy who could barely beat Donald on the cusp of retirement , John Ruiz and a 50 y o old Holyfied.

Al Berstien called Valeuv the worst HW he had ever seen in his life. Beating him doesn't prove anything in the discussion of greatness

 

Would like to echo this final sentiment here; I really want Wlad to retire now, there's nothing left for him to prove.

Klitschko has been a fantastic champion and has exhibited a wonderful champion mentality. He comes in to every match - EVERY match fit, conditioned and determined, he has fought everyone that was thrown at him, and has come out on top for the best part of a decade. If half the champions emulated this, boxing would be a whole lot healthier.

Once he retires, he'll leave a massive void in his wake - it'll be years since we'll have such a unified, dominating champ at the top of the division.

 

I haven't smoked any crack tbh

 

Every list is different.