No way to buy the Ring Magazine out where I live. I haven't seen one on sale for years. I would be interested if they listed criteria if anyone could quote them. Does seem an impressive list of experts. My criteria 1-----dominance (win & win consistently) 2-----longevity 3-----fighting the best available competition I find the list generally good. Here are some reactions: Johnson--fought all the top men for quite a while. Did seem to get a lot of them either before (Langford) or after (Fitz & Jeff) they were at the top of the division, which hurts a bit. But dominant for a very long time. It is interesting that from the time of his loss to Griffin in Nov of 1901, and his loss to Lawson in May, 1926, Johnson's only defeats were a disputed decision to Hart, on a foul to Jeannette whom he beat several times, and a KO loss in the 26th round of a finish fight with Willard after Johnson had much the better of it for over 20 rounds. I see this as an impressive performance for a 37 year old in so-so shape. I might drop him a couple of spots, but to me he deserves a high ranking. Marciano--most dominant record of all, and fulfills my third criteria. Short career hurts him some, but I think deserves his rating. I would put him 3rd myself. Dempsey--fails the 3rd standard because of not fighting Wills and Greb. Also, got beat twice by Tunney, so doesn't rate near the top of my first standard. Fair longevity. I would drop him well out of the top ten. Lewis--beat everyone he fought and I think fought everyone who was willing to fight him. Two bad losses hurt, but has everything else. Should be in the top five. Holmes--deserves his high rating. Foreman--great longevity, but lost to Ali & Young in the 1970's, and to Holyfield & Morrison in the 1990's. Unique career, but for such a long career didn't fight that many top men. Fringe top ten. Tunney & Fitz--I think shaky for being rated at heavy. P4P would be among best. Corbett--not in my top 20. Sullivan--very hard to rate, but would certainly drop him below Jeffries. Jeffries--historically unpopular because of his open racist stance--can't say he didn't make his own bed on that one--but rates high on dominance and fought the best as reasonably defined through 1903. Avoiding Johnson in 1904 to 1905 ruined a chance to rate near the top, but did end up fighting and losing to Johnson. I think should rate above Dempsey. Like Marciano, lacks longevity. I can see him as a fringe top ten pick. Wlad Klitschko--should be in the top ten, somewhere between 6-9. Vitali Klitschko--losing to the top two men he fought makes it hard to put him higher than he is. I think he was a very underperforming fighter in the sense of resume. Max Schmeling--should be in the top 20 off great KO of Louis and solid career. Frazier--I have sympathy for his critics on this board. Just out of top ten. Ali & Louis--deserve their positions. Harry Wills--would make my top 20. Ken Norton--Should be in top 20, but near bottom. Sonny Liston--looked very dominant until he fell apart against Ali. I would have less trouble seeing him in the top ten if he had hung in there better in those two losses. Not in my top ten, but in the top twenty. Holyfield--fringe top ten. Tyson--not in top ten. Started great, but fell apart. so out--Corbett, Tunney, Fitz in--Wills, Schmeling, Norton
I rank on one thing and one thing only. Winnability. I used to call it the eye test but some fighters aren't aesthetically pleasing but still had dominant victories over world class opposition (Marciano, Monzon etc). Here's my HW list as of this weekend. 1 Muhammad Ali 2 Joe Louis 3 Sonny Liston 4 Lennox Lewis 5 Wladimir Klitschko 6 Larry Holmes 7 Mike Tyson 8 George Foreman 9 Vitali Klitschko 10 Joe Frazier I know Bowe is a big miss there but I struggle with his placement. His time at the top was so short and his number of ranked opponents is so few. I don't think he deserves a place there but I can't shake the image of him bouncing Frazier around the mat like a basketball. Today he misses out, maybe tomorrow he gets in.
An excellent well thought out and explained post, parts of which I disagree with Marciano for eg, but a list refreshingly without agenda.
Joe Louis Muhammad Ali Larry Holmes Jack Johnson Rocky Marciano Wladimir Klitschko Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Jim Jeffries Evander Holyfield Jack Dempsey Sonny Liston George Foreman Joe Frazier Max Schmeling Gene Tunney Harry Wills Vitali Klitschko Sam Langford Fitzsimmons
How many of Tunney's 68 wins were over heavyweights? Lewis has 44 fights ,all against heavies.Tunney was a ranked heavyweight for 3 years,Lewis for 13 years.
I sometimes wonder if you post certain things for a wager. Some members on here are era biased, and that i can sort of understand / tolerate but you are in a totally different league when it comes to posting a load of old cobblers.
Not at all if you look at my list I value long dominant reigns. Look at the top 6. Sorry you're absolute statement shows your bias. Wlad made 23 title defenses 18 consecutive and beat a number of prime opponents. My list is mine and is just opinion but I can assure you I chose my list on reason and not personal preference