Does A Prime Marciano Beat The Joshua Of Today?

We both know (or strongly suspect) they were rubbish.

 

I wouldn't necessarily back Marciano to beat everyone Louis and Dempsey beat.
Like I said, I have my doubts as to whether he'd beat Carnera. And there are others.

I'm not dismissing Marciano's punching power or strength. OR his greatness. He was a phenomenon. But his lack of height and range is obvious and if you look at Charles, Moore and Walcott, they weren't an awful lot taller or rangier. An OLD Joe Louis was the only good fighter who was, and old Louis is completely different proposition to any quality 6'6 and 240 pound fighter.
I can't credit Marciano with being able to overcome massive physical advantages against quality opposition for the simply reason that he never did so.
In the cases of Dempsey and Louis, there's a far stronger case that they did, PLUS the fact (no coincidence, I'm sure) that they were better equipped physically themselves.

 

Well put.

Cant argue with this.

 

I think younger versions of Charles and Walcott would have a chance at beating Marciano.

 

It's negligible. Your quibbling about 1.5 inches and 3lb.

 

Let's be fair here


If we don't include the inactive and 41 year old version of Wlad Klitschko What is the quality big men that Anthony Joshua fought?

Big Bill Wlison was no world beater but he won 43 fights (34 by KO) and was over 230. He only lost 11 fights. Now I'm sure his record was made up of better guys than the opponents on Charles Martins padded record to become a contender in the present system.

6'4" Johnny Shkor had a 41% KO record at a better level than any of the first 18 guys Anthony Joshua has been beating. He was a headliner in his own state and gave Joe Louis a serious run for his money in one of those "exhibitions" that was given a newspaper verdict. He's not a world beater either but decent. He had recently beat Rusty Payne and lost to Walcott. I would put Shkor as A James Broad kind of guy. I'm not saying he would beat Anthony Joshua but I don't think he would lose to ANY of the first 18 guys Joshua has fought.

Now if Shkor can beat the 18 guys on paper that Joshua beat in order to be a world champion and into a fight with Wlad how bad can he be? He's only bad by the standard of his days.

 

The problem is, for me, I think the version of Wlad that lost to Joshua would beat Rocky.

I'm starting to really question everything I held true about boxing because win also wondering if that same version of Wlad beats Louis as well!

I mean if you can stand toe to toe with Joshua and come within a cat's pube of winning, surely you can stand toe to toe with anyone?!?!?!

 

But here's the thing, can you see any version of Tyson Fury lose to Wlad?

 

Well that loss was down to two things for me. A period of dominance behind a single game plan and an under estimation of handspeed.

Namely he had grown accustomed to grabbing and jabbing smaller men and had abandoned many of his fundamentals and he also thought he was the quicker man than Tyson.

What Tyson did was brilliant, he had faith in his atheltic ability when noone else did, he also was confident that any of Wlad's big man tactics wouldn't work on him. What it led to was a stalemate where Fury could get off first (superior handspeed) and stay away from anything coming back at him (superior gameplan).

A quicker Wlad might have got there first but it's fair to say Fury always gives him fits. I reckon even prime for prime Fury takes the first but loses a return when Wlad goes back to the drawing board.

 

I agree with your assessment on Wlad and Fury.

How do you see Fury get on with Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano under classic conditions?

 

Wilson was 43-11 when he fought Rocky. Lastarza could bang. He decked a lot of fighters.

Shkor was better than you make out. He stopped Tami Mauriello to get into the ratings and took all the top guys the distance apart from Walcott. Bivins, Baksi, hatchet man Shepherd all went the distance with him. No shame in that. And shkor twice fought Louis in competitive exhibitions that were basically real fights without head guards of the type he had with Pat Valentino. I have tried posting a photo of shkor and Louis exchanging blows but it won't let me. You can google it though.

 

Well, I could say Dillian Whyte beats Shkor, but what's the point ?

I don't really care about Joshua's first 18 fights either. I think we can all agree Joshua proved he was good against Wlad the other night.