Anthony Joshua vs Muhammad Ali who wins this super fight?

I disagree here too, to me size/weight is a huge deal and there is so much evidence supporting this throughout boxing history. Just look at each division and how many champions are big for the weight.

Foreman was a monster for his time, I actually believe (controversially, I know) Ali's victory over Foreman was in large part down to the conditions they fought in, with the smaller man affected less by the temperature. If they had rematched I would favour big George.

 

No love for Bowe? (Holyfield version)

 

No, not exactly. I don't dismiss performances over a top20-25 ish opponent, I don't have the mentality say "wah, he was a bum, that win don't count". It's about what I've seen from prime Ali and what I've seen from Joshua so far(which is enough to pick him over current Wlad). Going by the eyetest, I feel confident to pick Ali over Joshua.

 

I never cared much for the aftermath excuses. Ali won that fight with his ring IQ and mental strength(in both of those aspects you can make a case for him being the best ever at heavyweight).

 

Ali did indeed win and his mentality and tactics were crucial, I know Foreman himself never had any excuses so that in itself says it all but thats just my honest (unpopular) opinion. I must sound like an Ali hater in this thread but I really like both the fighter and the man.

I respect your opinions and you know FAR more than I ever will about boxing, we just see this one completely differently. You mentioned in another post that you think size is an overrated attribute and this is probably the main reason we disagree.

 

Who? Well I rather think head to head no one!
However "could" beat him, Lewis, Louis, Tyson, Holmes Dempsey and Holyfield.
I tend to like Tyson and Dempsey in particular for their speed, also Holyfield, you notice smaller guys.
Prime Ali always had the speed advantages in his fights I think that would be reduced against those fighters and other things would come into play.
I think overall the less of an all round mover you are despite other attributes you may have lessens your chances.
Of the bigger guys I think Holmes would give him the most trouble.
Probably the greatest ever jab, plus a decent mover I know he did beat a shot Ali but he gives any version of Ali trouble.

 

How about Roy Jones Jr? He is even faster and smaller than Dempsey!

 

A good point!

 

How do you explain the trend at heavyweight towards so called 'SuperHeavyweights'? Or do you think this is only temporary until an elite smaller heavyweight (maybe Usyk?) comes along?

I just feel that heavyweights of the past would have a hard time negating the size moderns enjoy. Look at standout cruiser weights who have had a crack at the HW division over the last couple decades, only Holyfield was really successful and he came unstuck when faced with skilled SHWs, Haye with all his speed and power had nothing for Wlad and only managed to eek out a controversial win against Valuev who was just a huge, lumbering oaf with primitive boxing ability….SIZE MATTERS!

(apologies if you have already answered all this, your picks for Ali's toughest opponent has me baffled)

 

It's like anything else regarding size, it depends who the smaller fighter is and who the larger fighter is.
Some of the super heavies have very good skills.
Lewis and Bowe for instance, Wlad had good skills although I think he's a bit statuesque.
Generally the bigger guys with these skills will win over the smaller fighter, but as you've mentioned an exceptional smaller fighter can overcome these disadvantages.
You mention Holyfield,but he also
was an attritional fighter who mentally didn't mind getting into a scrap as happened against Bowe and he came unstuck. Having said that Lewis in two fights against Holyfield didn't exactly dominate him and blow him away. Surely Ali could have improved on that?
I think a prime Ali was an exception because of his speed and movement and he wasn't exactly a small man.
I honestly think the real big guys are less of a problem than the smaller ones to him.
The way I see it, the good modern super heavies would beat the good heavies of the past, but there are exceptions, nothing is etched in stone.

 

**** is this still going on

 

You're right Joe, I've been lulled back in!

 

well just ****em up

 

Does Joshua beat any version of Klitschko?