Who is the beat HW of all time H2H?

Wlad is just too vulnerable to be that high.

 

There's nothing hilarious about it at all.

This is not looking at his resume in depth.

It's a thread looking at H2H match ups.

He was a formidable HW who would have been very hard for most guys to have beaten.

 

My list is in no particular order and Wlad is definitely in my top 5.

 

Yeah, but then you can have Anthony Joshua already in your list because he beat the same level of opposition
in even more dominant fashion.

 

Vitali Klitschkos opposition was either on Dillian Whyte level or out of their primes, how do you want to know
that he is that good ?

 

That's cool. But he was vulnerable in a way that guys like Lennox, Vitali and Ali etc, weren't.

 

You can include him if you want.

It's too early for me.

He's just beaten Wlad in a great fight, but that's not enough for me at this stage. He's only had 19 fights, and he's still got question marks over his stamina and his chin.

Vitali proved to me that he was a formidable HW. Vitali was unlucky that he retired having fought 25 times less than his brother.

 

This is based on H2H, not resume.

He was a formidable guy who ticked many boxes:

Size
Very good ability
Power
Aggression
Supreme confidence/mentally strong
Great chin

He was never comprehensively beaten.

He didn't have stamina issues.

He was never in serious trouble or knocked out etc.


He was a very hard guy to beat.


He would have been a hard nights work for any HW in history.

 

I know that therefore i have him in my top 5 as well, but you can't put him as number 1 with that resume,
if he would have fought against elite fighters, his vulnerabilites would have been probably exposed.
Lennox Lewis beat him fair and square, it was a close fight but not an unbelievable performance from Vitali.

 

I have never seen a man Bowe's size fight in the manner he did versus Holyfield, unloading beautiful, ferocious accurate attacks for 12 gruelling action packed rounds against an opponent too tough for his own good. Riddick Bowe was a war machine and in my eyes is a clear underdog to nobody on that form. (I am aware I may be biased due to exciting style etc but Bowe was smart and wouldn't fight bigger punchers with quite such reckless abandon)

This is H2H, as I understand it you get the best version of the fighter, not an average of their collective performances.

I know you have a background in combat sports and study all this stuff seriously, you know I respect your expertise but I really think you may be underselling peak Bowe in a H2H here, not KOing Tubbs and the Golota fights are not too relevant (he wasn't a dedicated enough professional to fulfil his potential).

Also, apparently the Lewis fight was made more than once but fate got in the way, the blame wasn't entirely on Bowe.

 

Holyfield was about 205 pounds many good SHW's would win with skills ,foreman couldnt win bc he wasnt a combo puncher and lacked speed and footwork to keep up. Holyfield defeated Bowe at 217 pounds his heaviest than the other fights he fought him in ,and had Steward with him. ONe fight doesnt exactly tell me how bowe would do,bc we saw 240 Golota bully Bowe weather hes on top or not he came into the rematch well prepared and in his fight weight. Golota was a big puncher.

What fights would you say he matches well with my list based on defeating holyfield ( not at 217 pounds???)

 

What vulnerabilities did he have?

This thread is looking at a H2H basis.

Look at Roy Jones' resume at MW. He only really beat: Castro, Hopkins and Tate. But on a H2H basis, he'd be one of the hardest MW's in history to beat.

Vitali never showed the vulnerabilities that Wlad did. Wlad got taken out 3 times. And he wasn't green, and it wasn't by a single punch like Lewis-Rahman.

Wlad didn't beat any elite guys either. The only thing he has over Vitali, his longevity.

Vitali would never have been taken out by the likes of Brewster, McCall and Rahman etc. We saw what he did to Sanders.

Vitali ticks all the boxes needed to have been a formidable guy to beat. He didn't have confidence issues like Wlad. He didn't fight in an ultra cautious manner. He was supremely confident. He may not be the best H2H, HW, but he has to be up there.

Lennox did beat him fair and square. But due to the circumstances, it wasn't really a satisfactory win for me. Vitali didn't quit. He wasn't knocked out. It was a technical knockout on the advice of the doctor, and he was winning the fight. There's a reason why Lennox wouldn't rematch him, despite talking of maybe having 3-4 more fights before he fought him. His fight with Lennox should tell you how hard to beat he was. Many other HW's in that position would have quit of their own accord. He was a very tough man.

 

Agreed, good post. IMHO that fight did credit to both Lewis and Vitali.

 

Bowe is a great shout. You very rarely see a man of his size, who can fight tall behind a jab, who can also give anyone hell on the inside. His prime didn't last long but during that period, he was a bad match-up for anyone.

Holmes would also trouble any fighter in history, if only on the basis of his jab. I think the best Holmes beats Lewis and Vitali, who would also make my list of H2H nightmares.

 

Lennox, Holmes, Ali, Vitali, Tyson