Foreman vs Lyle (early 1930s style)

I think that they look about as sloppy here as they do in the original version. Because it was an exciting but also unusually sloppy fight - Cosell in his commentary actually makes a point about how they abandon all boxing skill.

The main difference wouldn't be the quality of footage, but that this highlight for some reason contains a lot of clinches. Usually highlights from a slugfest, or any fight, don't focus as much on those.

In essence, no one would use a highlight from what at the time was known as an exciting but unskilled brawl to make a case for the skill of 70's HWs - no matter the quality of the footage.

 

A less agenda driven choice would have been a clip like this. Do it in the same style and then we can have a look:

This content is protected

 

What bugs me a bit with this discussion is that it started with a clip of Fitz and Corbett that was used as an example of how good their technique was. Me, and several others, pointed out that this wasn't a good example of refined technique and why it wasn't. The discussion has then continued with the proponents of the quality of Fitz's and Corbett's using more modern HWs at their worst moments to show that they aren't any better than the old timers.

But no one has ever used Foreman as an example of the skill of modern boxers. Not even when he has looked his best, and this is a rusty version coming back after more than a year out of the ring. Nor has an anyone used Haye overloading on a winging right lead as an example of technical boxing.

If you can make Holy-Bowe I look bad (without actively picking out the worst moments), then you have proven a point. So do that, or admit to an agenda and stop posting things like this.

 

Got over yourself. He says that the skill on display is very low. That is his verdict. And if the only fight we had from the 30's was Baer-Carnera, you would have some kind of a point. But we also have fights with more technically skilled fighters of the time like Sharkey, Schmeling and Louis. And from the 70's we have plenty more skilled fighters like Ali, Holmes, Young, Ellis, Norton, Quarry and Frazier. Lyle and Foreman, together with Shavers, are among the less skilled of the top HWs at the time. And this was also Foreman at his worst period in the 70's (post Zaire).

You choose the most unskilled brawl of the big fights at the time. That's hardly an accident. What I and others have done is to be critical of clips that has been put forward as examples of old timers skill. No one has chosen them at their worst to show their lack of skill.

 

I always thought he looked like a sloppy arm puncher in that fight. As I said, use the clip of Norton-Holmes (that very clip) to make them look unskilled or admit to your agenda.

 

Great post.

 

Not me you can post as many clips as you want, I'm always pleased to see them!
Especially the colourized ones!

 

Case in point, the man with whom you're arguing insisted that Baer was using sound defensive technique in this clip from Reznick:

https://streamable.com/smszb

 

1919 footage of Dempsey shows a fast on his feet, perpetual motion fighter, continually bobbing and weaving looking for openings and when he finds one ,exploding a left hook onto Willard's face with devastating results .This is the signal for a veritable thunderstorm of punches to be launched .
We are witnessing the birth of a totally new style of heavyweight puncher.
Anyone who says he cannot see that is either a barefaced liar, or a fool who doesn't know WTF he is looking at!

 

"Leading with the face" was a subtle defensive technique that no one can use any more like Baer could.

Of course you can use moments from for example Bowe-Golota - hell, even the odd moment from Bowe-Holy I - where Bowe looks like ****, but no one would say that he displayed "sound defensive technique" in those instances.