Sonny Liston, head to head GOAT

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BrutalForeman, May 11, 2017.

  1. BrutalForeman

    BrutalForeman Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    302
    Yep I said it.
    Prime Liston had it all. I think he had the tools to defeat all different styles, including recent SHWs. I give prime Liston a 50% shot vs prime Ali and am sure Liston defeats more Heavies throughout history than Ali, Louis or any other fighter does.
     
  2. BrutalForeman

    BrutalForeman Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    302
    This content is protected
     
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    32,431
    Likes Received:
    40,612
    He had the tools to beat a heck of a lot of heavy s definitely. It's just a shame we never saw a younger version of sonny hit the division. By the time he met ali I think his best days were behind him slightly. So yep, a young liston does a lot of damage.
     
  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    15,901
    Likes Received:
    7,644
    Definitely one of the goats who had the unfortunate experience of sharing the same era as prime Ali.
     
  5. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    17,184
    Likes Received:
    16,977
    Prime Liston looks great on film.
    Id pick him against alot of champs
     
  6. VVMM

    VVMM Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,372
    Likes Received:
    344
    Show a win for example ! The glass-chinned small Patterson ?
     
    RockyJim likes this.
  7. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,464
    Likes Received:
    2,824
    I would never pick Liston as the GOAT h2h. He quit in the first fight, and took a dive in the second fight with Ali. That is GOAT material, far from it.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,364
    Same here. Liston was a stylistic nightmare for a very afraid Patterson.

    On film, Cleveland Williams busts Sonny up before his chin gave out early.

    The first Ali fight before Liston quit showed Sonny was not that hard to shake up or cut. I had it 3-2 for Ali, but Ali was coming on and the 5th round Ali's eyes were burning him thanks of course to whatever ailment they put on Liston's body or gloves.

    Liston looks great, but he his competition was on the light side.
     
    bodhi, Gatekeeper and RockyJim like this.
  9. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    7,694
    Likes Received:
    4,245
    He had it all except for proper balance when throwing a power right hand if he misses.Defense when he lunged over leaving his head exposed ( mainly to uppercuts) .He drops his left hand almost always after he jabs...would he really getaway with that against a bigger refined jabber NOT from his era?

    He was BIG in HIS era,he had it all but would he even had have the size advantage IF we used other BIGGER fighters from other eras? NO He would struggle to have the same k.o impact against 230 plus pounders and his own punch resistance would also fall down against guys who would then outweigh him by a good 20 plus pounds.

    Liston excelled with stationary targets and was not very accurate when trying to hit someone on the move.

    Are you sure this guy had it ALL? He would not be the big bear anymore in most H2H matches against very talented SHW's.Dont tell me i used SIZE to make an argument i just listed quite a few faults that would be his undoing against many guys.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    98,716
    Likes Received:
    30,657
    Which of the modern super heavies would you say hit harder than Williams? No one is very accurate trying to hit a moving target not Louis, or anyone else.Liston would not be outreached by today's boys and I venture to say he would not be outpowered either. I don't say he had it all, that fighter has not yet be born, but he had most of the tools needed to be considered a great heavyweight, apart from the ability to cut off the ring.imo
    Had he gotten his title chance when he first deserved it, he may have had several decent title defences on his record before he faced Ali. Bumping him up in the all time rankings. You're right about his right, he threw it awkwardly ,it was described in the trade papers as a longshoreman using his hook .
     
  11. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    No. Liston was as predictable a hwt as you can ever find. A poor mans, slow, Joe Louis without Joes great boxing ability.
     
  12. BrutalForeman

    BrutalForeman Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    302
    So, do you think Marciano, Dempsey, Tyson and Frazier could beat Liston? I dont. But they could beat Louis, because Louis couldnt deal with swarmers like Sonny could. Sonnys Chin is also > Louis' Chin.
     
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  13. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    9,343
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    All those fighters were greater fighters than Liston. Liston gave up, sitting on his stool, the greatest prize in sports. Sonny could be easily out gutted by a truely great fighter.
     
  14. BrutalForeman

    BrutalForeman Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    302
    Tyson quit on his stool vs McBride. Was that prime Tyson? Liston wasnt that far past it, but his was past prime and out of shape. I'd equate Sonny vs Ali to Tyson vs Douglas. Yes, Douglas was great, but 88 Tyson was a different animal and may have won.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  15. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2017
    Messages:
    9,074
    Likes Received:
    6,791
    Yeah with that big heavy jab and more in his prime, theres a good chance Ali imo cant do anything with Liston, bit like Norton !