Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Apr 23, 2017.


Who was the better all-around fighter, Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

  1. Primo Carnera

  2. Riddick Bowe

  3. They were equally good all-around fighters

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  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    It looks like Primo was suspended for his second 1930 bout because he beat the other guy easily. Even though Primo outmatched him completely. And then everyone ignored the suspension and fought Primo anyway. The board then threatened those fighters with suspension for fighting a suspended fighter.

    The over zealous board seemed surprisingly incredulous at times. They deemed Max Baer unfit to fight Primo after some old grey haired man was unimpressed with Baers sparring. Everyone threw a huge fit, and they reversed their decision.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #556
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  2. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Commissions fined boxers for bad performances.
    And banned managers for criticizing them.
     
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #557
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  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    How do you know that both perspectives were equally acceptable? Who called him a "genius"? Other than Leonard, who even complimented his defense?

    Btw, What was Leonard's basis for doing so? I wonder how many times he'd watched Carnera fight (and whether he'd ever seen him on film).
     
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    #558
  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Billy Petrole vs. King Tut (1930)
    Billy Wallace vs. Patsy Ruffalo (1930)
    Benny Bass vs. Tod Morgan (1930)
    Jimmy Slattery vs. Johnny Brasill (1930)
    Mickey Walker vs. Salvator Ruggerillo (1932)
     
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #559
  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Even the praise and flattering writeups don't put this man in sniffing distance of Riddick Bowe. You guys would've been much better off trying your luck in a "Is Carnera Underrated and Misunderstood" thread and abandoning the embarrassing, credibility-shattering, ridicule-worthy claim that he was a better all-around fighter than Riddick Bowe.
     
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    #560
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  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Jack Sharkey and Max Schmeling.

    "Those arms were like limbs of a tree and, when he put them in front of him, there was nothing to hit." -Jack Sharkey.

    "In fact, his reach was much greater than any opponent, and the leverage that gave him enabled his punches to penetrate almost any defence. In contrast to the experts, I had always considered Carnera to be a technically sound boxer, so I was not in the least suprised to hear he had knocked Sharkey out in the sixth round to become the second European to win the world heavyweight title" - max schmeling.
     
    choklab, May 13, 2017
    choklab, May 13, 2017
    #561
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  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Common sense.
    He was a lineal HW champions with SHW proportions dominating B and C level fighters, beating some good ranked contenders, defending the belt twice.

    Like I said (before I read any contemporary quotes), his mobility looks really good. His jab looks really good. He uses his strength and size effectively, and he could punch. He is a solid, bonafide SHW great.

    What is your basis for Leonards supposed subterfuge?
     
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #562
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  8. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Jeffries complimented his defense too.
    As did many writers who reported his fights.
     
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #563
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think you have done us all proud with all the facts you are using to back up Carnera
     
    choklab, May 13, 2017
    choklab, May 13, 2017
    #564
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  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Bowe couldn't hold the belt any longer than Primo could.
    Carnera had better defenses.
    Primo didn't win an imaginary title from Hercules-Land. It is the same title.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #565
  11. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Honestly all it took was watching a few quality Carnera training films and fights.
    Immediately I saw that he was way better than the Boxiana lore presents.

    You can see how his stiff left jab pushes heads back like a battering ram.
    And he combines it with smooth footwork, good range control, smokescreen feinting with good attack angles.
    Like I said, a bonafide SHW great.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #566
  12. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    See, this is the problem with the way you watch fights. You see that his jab was long and occasionally looked hard and you think that means he had a very good jab. But no, his jab doesn't look really good--especially compared to bonafide great heavies like Bowe. Looks pretty poor compared to theirs, actually, for the reasons that have already been described (and shown) in great detail.

    He has decent mobility in the sense that he is physically able to move around the ring surprisingly quickly, but he lacked the coordination and understanding & control over distance to leverage that mobility the way that superior fighters do. He looks like a dancing bear when he starts moving fast (interesting but more entertaining than scary); he rarely did any of his best work in that mode.
     
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    #567
  13. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Here's your problem.
    I am 10% into your post, and you've made an incredulous and completely inaccurate claim.
     
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    reznick, May 13, 2017
    #568
  14. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Pushes heads back (when he lands it), but the rest of this stuff is incredibly exaggerated, almost delusionally so. You're sounding like a caricature of a classicist. Someone unfamiliar with Carnera who read your description of him would be absolutely stunned and incredulous if they went back and watched his big fights for the first time.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    #569
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  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    You're not arguing against Boxiana--you're arguing against people who are telling you that he's not an all around better fighter than Riddick Bowe.

    And someone like Carnera looking impressive in training films is neither here nor there--we're talking about fighting, not practice.
     
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, May 13, 2017
    #570
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