Sonny Liston, head to head GOAT

Stronger and more robust than louis, better jab also imo

 

He didn't give up when fighting with a broken jaw against Marshall, or a broken nose against Williams.

 

Liston beats Marciano and Frazier.Tyson's handspeed might make a difference.

 

I don't see much of a case for Liston being the H2H goat at all. I know many others are much bigger Liston fans than I am, though, so more power to 'em.

 

You would not be the first person to suggest this, but I think the bottom line is that he never quite proved it in the ring.

 

As soon as someone fixates on those losses throw their opinion aside.

 

Liston is one of my fav heavyweight boxer.

His reach tie with lewis, & if I'm not wrong longer than wlad. It's crazy.

Liston 84" Wlad 82"

 

Again the main issue is HE GAVE UP SITTING ON HIS STOOL THE GREATEST PRIZE IN ALL OF SPORTS. A prize ATG hwt champions fought life and death to retain/gain. Huge HUGE black mark and it is one of the key reasons ATG and Liston are rarely mentioned in the same breath.

In regards to Tyson similar idea holds true. Lots of dog in Tyson and although he never gave up his title via quitting he did exhibit the tendency to not have the intestinal fortitude that ATG hwts tend to exhibit. Push him to work, make him think....he falls apart. Those close to Tyson will tell you he always was a mental case. Give Tyson the fortitude of a Marciano or Frazier and he would be rated up there with Ali and Louis.

 

Yup...He did that as CHAMPION!!! We go H2H with great fighters of the past as CHAMPIONS!! Not picking the best fighter at a certain date to fit our agenda...you examine how they did as champion. Sonny...as champ..QUIT while sitting on his stool against the light hitting Cassius Clay in 1964. In May '65...he took a dive against Ali up in Maine.
You get into this guys head as Clay did in 1964...you've got him. He had tools...but he wasn't mentally tough.
We know he fought with a broken jaw....lots of guys did. To say that Liston plows through Dempsey..Louis...
...Marciano...etc. is just a matter of opinion...as is every thing said on this site. Do I think he out guts lots of past champs?... No! I met him...shook his hand...when he was training in Cedarville Mass. getting ready for the 2nd Ali
...."fight"....he was a big guy...but I think that Sonny had too many demons...IMO.

 

Excellent!!!

 

Liston was indeed a monster h2h but if we interpret the fights with clay/ali as him "quitting" it severely weakens his standing. For example, he has all the tools to beat modern fighters like mercer, ruddock, or witherspoon but its a big question mark what would happen if they grit their teeth and refused to lose.

 

How about you do us a favor and post an ATG list without Liston. Sports Illustrated has him at #3! As do I.

 

Great post. Couldn't agree more. How much stock do you really put in past prime Liston vs Ali.. Not saying Liston would win because it's Ali he faced but same as Dempsey Tunney for me .. many boxers and people in general wanted nothing to do with Liston. He scared the sh** out of people....

 

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