Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

Not much is escaping you on this one, on fire old fella LOL

 

The Braddock defence was seen as a total gimme for Baer a foregone conclusion, that's why is was so sparsely supported Baer was a 10/1 on favourite!
You're trying to lay bricks without cement!
Not half a crowd 12,000.
For his 2nd fight with Leroy Haynes, Carnera drew 23,000! This was a year after his relevance to the heavyweight division had totally vanished!

 

It's perhaps also worth noting that it was reported there had been little activity at the bookmakers for this one.

 

Its becoming rather pathetic how these three apologists keep ignoring facts and continue to try so desperately to deny the undeniable.

 

The more i see of Baer the less impressed with him i am too. Man he has some wild swings in him.

 

Although according to Janitor."many expected Neusel to win!"

 

He's emphatically talking about a loss rather than a whole career.

the significance of Carnera still being regarded as one of the best heavyweights despite losing is rather telling actually. When Braddock lost the title he was not regarded the best heavyweight in the world. When Ali lost to spinks he was no longer regarded the best heavyweight in the world. Some champions hold the title without that distinction. Primo did have the distinction of being the best.

I'm not happy with the cruel stuff aimed toward Primo AFTER he lost the title from the American press. Why should I be? I prefer standard reporting of the fight from non experts

the significance of Carnera being considered one of the best Heavyweights since Tunney shows us that the guy was not a joke or a fraud but a serious elite fighter in his own right. Six years is a long period.

why? Why should he only be included as one of the best out of common decency? There was never any common decency aimed toward unpopular fraudulent prospects who never made the grade. If they included him as one of the best it is on merit. Common decency doesn't come into it.

changed his opinion on what? A champion can still rate another champion on merit even if he spots flaws or openings, and thinks his skills are limited. How many people outboxed Baer? Would that prevent a champion from acknowledging his overall worth as a champion?

he does not need to reconsider a breakdown of a losing effort. We have not yet unearthed Gene Tunney breakdown of Joe Louis's losing effort. And if we did, would it effect the overall value of his record until that point?

it's not low key. 43-3 Neusel was so well regarded that he was already a headliner in New York and considered a potential champion. What is your explanation of this result

Neusel was a better fighter than Leroy Haynes. The blond Tiger went into the Carnera fight after beating Tommy Loughran, Larry Gains, the giant Ray Impelitiere, the giant jack Pettifer, jack Peterson, gipsie Daniels, Ben Foord and Stanley Poreda. After the carnera fight Neusel recorded a further 25 wins including one over Max Schmeling![/QUOTE]

 

Yeah the thread died for all intents and purposes a bit back now under a two pronged avalanche of bullet proof debating. There was a point of no return and everything after that has looked increasingly worse for one side.

 

Terrific power with as crude a technique as you will see among heavyweights,yet he found no difficulty in penetrating Carnera's "wonderful defence"!

 

The problem the three amigos have with trying to turn the tide of decades of historical opinion is that nothing has actually changed - if only they could work that out (unless they've always secretly harbored these opinions of Carnera).

There is only a modicum of relatively new footage, from which it seems their inexplicable revision has come about.

Eventually, all they have left is a mantra: that they are right because they say they're right.

 

Which makes perfect sense, given that Carnera was the favourite, in a bout that "attracted low wagering interest"... (The Morning Call (Allentown, Pennsylvania); 01 Nov 1935, Fri; Page 30, Column 7)

 

Given the size disadavantage he was obviously "less crude" that Carnera, certainly.

 

I think it would be fair to call somebody "the newly crowned champion" any time prior to their first title defence.

Your obsession with semantics is becoming somewhat trying.

 

It was still a fight for the lineal heavyweight title, and it would still be expected to gross more than a match between two contenders, baring one of them being of exceptional interest i.e. Joe Louis.

I don’t think you can simply gloss over this.

I would also point out that Braddock had a significant following himself, despite being a heavy underdog, and in some ways because of it.

I don't know why the Haynes fight produced such a big gate, but if it was grossing more than a fight for the lineal title, it was obviously an aberration in its own right.

 

It is worth noting, but there are a number of things that could explain that.