Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

Oh you wouldn't understand them!

 

You're right!

 

Why do people keep trying to quote statements made about Carnera back then. Just looking at the video footage about Carnera tells you everything you need to know about who was better him or Bowe

 

Yes - how could these explain the low interest in betting for the Carnera/Neusel bout, specifically?

Is there something notable you can inform us on, in respect to the consumer demographics, the location of betting shops, and the economic cycle that particularly impacted that bout?

Are these factors something a newspaper reporter might not have been aware of and factored in?

Do you not think the newspaper reporter was stating this in terms relative to the times; the demographics, location of betting shops and the weather?

 

I don't know. I think it has something to do with Neusel.

Not sure why. The bout, to the best of my knowledge, is not avaialble on film. Nonetheless, this bout seems to be the magic bullet in terms of erasing all the clear evidence that Carnera was not as good as Bowe.

 

IMO the best and simplest evaluation of a fighter is if you(as long as you know what you're looking at) watch as much available fight footage as possible against different styles and different skillsets. Then you take how good the fighter looked and what strengths/weaknesses he had and then try to account for level of competition and mitigating factors thats all you need for a pretty good assessment.

Not sure what all these quotes from other people are supposed to do. I know what im looking at and dont need someone to tell me if someone is good. If someone points out a flaw or a skill that i hadnt noticed yet ok im willing to listen and change my opinion. But
1. Using quotes of another fighter back then calling Carnera "good" or something like that doesnt really do anything especially since there seem to be quotes from equaly qualified observers saying the opposite.
2. Taking quotes out of context, changing them is just counterproductive to the discussuion.

 

I have never claimed to be an expert on betting demographics.

I think it is fair to say however, that they are not necessarily directly proportional to the fight gate.

 

I had the impression you might know why this bout attracted less interest.

 

No, but it does mean that it is always going to be a hard sell to get them to place the next tier of fighters from those eras over him.

We would have the same problems if we were arguing the case for Ingemar Johansen for example.

We know that we have the uphill climb on this, and we are OK with that.

 

An Italian fighting a German probably wasn’t a good start back then.

 

I thought your original argument was that since the fight was held in MSG it must necessarily have been a fight that held a certain amount of gravitas as far as the heavyweight division was concerned? You now seem to be implying that the public was rather apathetic towards it?

 

I agree with your sentiments.

My view, much like yours, I suspect, is that there is no available footage, which shows Carnera doing enough to pass the eye test. So, even when looking at other written sources, to try and push for enough evidence to overturn the conclusion of a visual assessment is nigh-on impossible.

While I value looking to other sources, for information on accompanying factors in assessing a fighter, the manner in which these sources are treated is important. For example, one-off pieces, which cannot be corroborated are dubious but, where a general consensus of corroborating information, from various sources, can be viewed, there is historical validity in that.

In this case, neither the visual assessment nor the written record really support the case being made by the three Carnera supporters on the forum.

 

Who alive has seen more than grainy jumping clips of Jim Jeffries? Yet I would confidently predict that a significant number of boxing people would rate him above Carnera, I certainly would!

 

This is irrefutable.

 

I think Neusel/Impelletiere was an MSG headliner, as well. I'm not sure that was considered anything other than low-key, either.