Better All-Around Fighter: Primo Carnera or Riddick Bowe?

Most of the voters have probably gone with the position that they held at the start of the debate.

Changing people’s minds in a matter like this takes time.

You say that there are three pro Carnera posters, but there are actually only three or four hard-core Bower posters as well.

The footage and information that we have put out there won’t go away, and it will still be out there long after you have finished ranting and raving about it.

We will continue to build upon it as well.

 

One would have to say Schmeling was the best German Boxer, throughout the relevant period.

Though, it is even difficult to say if Neusel was the next-best fighter in Germany. Neusel didn't win his first domestic championship, until years after his shellacking from Schmeling.

From 1928 - 1937 the German BDB title was held by:

- Max Schmeling
- Ludwig Haymann
- Hein Mueller
- Vincenz Hower
- Arno Koelblin

Schmeling appears to have given the title up some time in '28/'29. And so, for the most part, it was shared between the other four boxers, passed back and forth, until Neusel first wins it from Koelblin in 1938.

Incidentally, Schmeling would pick it up again in 1939, along with the EBU title from Heuser, in his next bout after Louis II.

 

Golovkin throws too many jabs to worry about losing a decision, he also has too good of a chin to worry about getting knocked out and he also has enough power.

 

There should be the notation [janitor] included in the dictionary definition of the word 'optimism'. 87% is a sheer landslide. The debate was over long ago, since one doesn't need to be a 'hard-core Bowe poster' to know that the argument for Carnera is a hiding to nothing.

Whilst you and others have tried to put a case together - and I give you credit for at least trying (to a point) - the footage provided does nowhere near add the credibility to your claims that you think it does.

Collectively, your references to written sources and the arguments made, based on those sources, have all been systematically dismantled. This has included your side of the argument being revealed as demonstrably misquoting sources.

I am not sure what the next step of your campaign could possibly be.

 

After Schmeling had lost to Hamas, and drawn against Uzcudun, many in Germany say Neusel as the new rising star. When they fought, many expected it to be a passing of the torch affair. Obviously Schmeling battered Neusel, and went on to become the No 1 contender again, and the rest is history.

After the war Hein Ten Hof was the top heavyweight in Germany, who later became the European champion, and fought Jersey Joe Walcott. Both Schmeling and Neusel hoped to challenge Hof for the German title after the war. Neusel put an end to Schmeling's comeback, and went on to hold Hof to a draw in 1949, just before Hof fought Jersey Joe Walcott.

So I think that Neusel was on the cusp of being something special.

 

Your post hasn't been clear on what point in time it is you think that Neusel was on "the cusp of being something special"...

- Pre-Schmeling 1?
- or Post Schmeling 2?

 

Both Neusel and Schmeling had seen their 40th birthdays when they had their second fight !
7-0-0 Ten Hoff beat Neusel.
10-0-1 Ten Hoff beat Neusel by ko .
The best that Neusel ever managed was a draw with the now 10-0-2 Ten Hoff !
Unheralded Heinz Lazek beat Neusel 3 out of 4 .
Neusel never even established his superiority over his fellow German heavyweights!

 

Neusel was a better fighter than any of the guys Bowe successfully defended the title against. Especially the versions he fought.

 

I think that he was just unlucky to emerge in Germany while Schmeling was still active.

Any other time and he would likely have been a standout.

The fact that he was competitive with Hoff on the wrong side of 40 impresses me.

 

Not the version of Neusel we've been discussing.

 

Hoff taking on Walcott.

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That hasn't really answered my question.

Your claims about Neusel are not really borne out by results beyond '33.

I'm not all that enchanted by a 'last hurrah' against a relative novice that appears on paper to have gone ok but still without achieving the win. And, I'd need to see the details of what led to the draw with Ten Hoff to be convinced that it did actually go that well.

Even then, an even less experienced Ten Hoff had beaten Neusel twice before, once by TKO. There's not a huge amount to get excited about here, in terms of your idea that he was on the "cusp of being something special"

 

I thought that and began a response but wanted it clarified first.